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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 394

post #5896 of 10397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beach Bum View Post

I need polish. Colonil 1909 or Saphir. I need a cleaner/conditioner, several shades of cream polish, several colors of wax polish. That's it, no brushes nothing else.

What's the easiest and most economical way to have these sent to me in Chicago? Send a link and ill buy tonight. Thanks SF.

Collinil 1909 is available in different sizes at Amazon.  CLICK HERE

 

Saphir Products can be found in the following links:

 

LINK 1

 

LINK 2

 

You may also consider the color guide for a more accurate match:

 

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 90

post #5897 of 10397

Excuse me, but what is the difference between 'handmade' and 'handcrafted' shoes?

 

Also, is the debate of different types of welt a matter of 'marginal gains'? I would imagine that neither Goodyear nor Blake are going to fall apart, quickly, when attached to good shoes. I would also assume that the wearer doesn't feel any difference between the two.

post #5898 of 10397
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

I walk 1/2 a mile to the train in the morning, probably another 1/2 a mile at lunchtime, and 1/2 a mile from the train to home. On weekends I walk even more. If I walk less to get more out of my shoes then I will get fat and need new suits! A conundrum.

I don't think it's too much anyway. I used to walk 3 miles a day on dress shoes (48 and 3rd to 23rd and Park round trip + smaller coffee trip).
post #5899 of 10397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post

Excuse me, but what is the difference between 'handmade' and 'handcrafted' shoes?

 

Also, is the debate of different types of welt a matter of 'marginal gains'? I would imagine that neither Goodyear nor Blake are going to fall apart, quickly, when attached to good shoes. I would also assume that the wearer doesn't feel any difference between the two.

 

I think your first question is simply semantics.  

 

As for the second question, I agree that there are probably not enough differences between the constructions to become a loyalist of one over the other simply because one may fall apart quicker.  It is true that a possible weakness that exists in Goodyear-welted shoes (canvas gemming) doesn't exist in Blake/Rapid, and thus, a Blake/Rapid shoe is less likely to come apart during regular wear.  However, the prevalence of gemming failure is very poorly documented and isn't prevalent enough to be recognized as a true weakness by the masses or by most shoe experts.  It wouldn't have taken hold as the favored shoe construction technique for high-end shoes if it were that prone to failure.  After all, it isn't like the people who can afford Goodyear-welted shoes or Hand-welted shoes can't also afford Blake/Rapid.  Therefore, those who can afford the best and also demand quality, craftsmanship, and durability have proven to be accepting of Goodyear-welted shoes to fill that demand.  It's comparable to "survival of the fittest."  If there were a noticeable difference in the overall lifespan of a Goodyear-welted shoe vs. a Blake/Rapid shoe, the longer lived one would have become the standard.  This difference doesn't really exist, and therefore Goodyear-welted shoes have become the gold-standard for reasons other than longevity.  

 

As has been established above, the likelihood of your uppers surviving long enough for the shoe construction to actually matter is relatively slim.  I think the question may become more important when dealing with shell, since it has the capacity to last far longer.  However, most shell doesn't live up to it's full potential in machine stitched shoes because it too is destroyed by needless replacement of the welts or midsoles, thus losing it's integrity and becoming worthless far earlier than the leather itself would go kaput.    

 

There is a difference in the fit and feel of a Goodyear-welted vs. Blake/Rapid shoe.  Flexibility is a factor, especially when comparing a single soled Goodyear-welted to a Blake/Rapid.  The flexibility of a Blake/Rapid shoe should be more akin to that of a double soled Goodyear-welted shoe, if that's important to you.  Also, the cork filler underneath the insole is not present in a Blake/Rapid shoe.  Some like the cork, others don't.  Some consider it worthless, other enjoy what it has to offer.  It comes down to personal preference I think.  

post #5900 of 10397

Once again, Money, thank you very much for such a detailed response to my question. I appreciate it very much. 

post #5901 of 10397
Quote:
Originally Posted by clee1982 View Post

That's a recent Taiwanese firm right? I wonder where they learned their craft.

Probably trained by Italians.

Newer generation Turn Right shoes hired Eric Cook to train their makers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by benhour View Post

i am looking forward to see Patrick!!!! bounce2.gif


You really walk too mutch!!! i usually walk about 2miles  per wear at most!!(usually i go with my car so i dont walk a lot i have to admit)

yes exactly that!! i prefer to see no stitching around the shoe but i would happyly  wear a good looking shoe with GYwelt or norvigian and ofcourse bespoke!!  i tried to find and a pic from Blake and one for a GYear(somewhere in the black hole of my computer) but till now i cant locate  them!!!
yes thats true !! i expect 3-4 resoles but with the fact i walk about 2miles at most per wear i think my upper will be destroyed before i ll need the 4th resole!

Well, your insole would most likely crack before the 4th resole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post

Excuse me, but what is the difference between 'handmade' and 'handcrafted' shoes?

Also, is the debate of different types of welt a matter of 'marginal gains'? I would imagine that neither Goodyear nor Blake are going to fall apart, quickly, when attached to good shoes. I would also assume that the wearer doesn't feel any difference between the two.

1. Marketing
2. Serviceability
post #5902 of 10397

Thank you, too, Chogall.

post #5903 of 10397
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post


I have shied away from conditioning the insoles of my gemmed shoes because I fear the conditioning oils with help to loosen the glue that holds the gemming in place. shog[1].gif I do however condition the inner lining.
Well, it is simple really. DWFII is the only person that makes bespoke shoes at that price point. When you add in travel and time the price inflates to about what the expensive English bespoke makers cost, which is about 3X the cost of a Frommer Boot shoe.
I'll have something in about 3-4 months that you might like then... smile.gif
While I disagree with your Church's comment post prada. Their classic line hasn't changed a bit, however I do agree with your assessment of shoe's life.

People vastly overestimate the longevity of shoes. Of all of my cracked shoes that I created a shitstorm over a little while ago none of them are over 4 years old. Also, I find that I need resoles about once per year on all of my shoes on average. That is with about 10 pairs of shoes and admittedly used heavily. I live in NYC and walk A LOT. Does it bother me to get frequent resoles? Not at all. Cracking uppers, however does bother me, which I attribute to putting too much shit, too often on my shoes, and shoes with lower quality uppers. There is a huge difference between the look and feel of the leather used in $500 shoes compared to $1k+ shoes and even $1k shoes to bespoke shoes. Some people refuse to see this, but it is pretty evident. What am I doing about this? Well, number one buying better shoes from here on out. Just because you can get deals here and there and have more, doesn't really mean they will last, because in my experience they won't unless like you said you cherish them like museum pieces and only take them out for a ride once per month to drive to work and shuffle around a carpeted office. Also, putting less shit on my shoes less frequently. A good brushing before wears is enough for most of the time. The final thing is including more shell cordovan in my collection to increase lifespan of uppers of all shoes.

I think shoes are an interesting subject. I associate them to the Starbucks coffee. An affordable luxury. People know that a good pair of shoes makes an entire outfit look elevated and better, and they are relatively cheap to acquire (compared to bespeaking suits) and have in their minds that they are some kind of investment that will last forever. The fact is they really aren't an investment at all, and they are probably not going to last forever if you wear shoes a lot. Myself like most others in the world can't afford to buy a full wardrobe of bespoke shoes at one time and need to face the reality that your $1k+ shoes will need maintenance in both time and money. If you don't have either this isn't the game for you.

Patrick this is a great essay but please allow me to offer an alternative explanation. I work in water pollution law--specifically MS4s (stormwater discharge in municipalities into the sewers). One of the biggest issues facing cities water-wise is what to do with storm water once it drains from the street into the sewer system, because of all of the harsh, toxic chemicals it puts into the wastewater system. How does this relate to your shoes? Well, I just happen to know that New York city has one of the highest amounts of chemicals in storm water discharges into the wastewater system. My intuition tells me that since you are walking a shit load in a city with pretty corrosive particles in the air and water, it makes sense that your leather uppers would deteriorate faster than a less congested, less dense city with better airflow and cleaner streets (i.e. no motor oil, trash, etc.). I would be interested to hear whether there is anyone on this thread who lives in Beijing or Shanghai (where there is also a ton of pollution) has had a similar experience. I can tell you I walk 5-6 miles a day in Washington DC on my Allen Edmonds (the quality of leather of which is not comparable to Church's, C&J, Alden) and have not had nearly the same problems with the upper cracking or soles wearing down as you seem to have had. Again, no science to back this up, but just my 2 ¢ .... 

post #5904 of 10397
Quote:
Originally Posted by JermynStreet View Post

Patrick this is a great essay but please allow me to offer an alternative explanation. I work in water pollution law--specifically MS4s (stormwater discharge in municipalities into the sewers). One of the biggest issues facing cities water-wise is what to do with storm water once it drains from the street into the sewer system, because of all of the harsh, toxic chemicals it puts into the wastewater system. How does this relate to your shoes? Well, I just happen to know that New York city has one of the highest amounts of chemicals in storm water discharges into the wastewater system. My intuition tells me that since you are walking a shit load in a city with pretty corrosive particles in the air and water, it makes sense that your leather uppers would deteriorate faster than a less congested, less dense city with better airflow and cleaner streets (i.e. no motor oil, trash, etc.). I would be interested to hear whether there is anyone on this thread who lives in Beijing or Shanghai (where there is also a ton of pollution) has had a similar experience. I can tell you I walk 5-6 miles a day in Washington DC on my Allen Edmonds (the quality of leather of which is not comparable to Church's, C&J, Alden) and have not had nearly the same problems with the upper cracking or soles wearing down as you seem to have had. Again, no science to back this up, but just my 2 ¢ .... 

Simpler reason, don't over care your shoe. I walk a ton in NYC and London mainly, no cracking what's so ever.

And in any case, styleforum has always been disillusional about shoe as investment, it's like calling a car you can drive for 30 years an investment. We all know we buy nice shoes because we love them, otherwise 10 pair of John Lobbs is enough to buy over 150 pair of cheap shoes (100 dollars ones) which for sure will never need to be resoled if you change everyday...
post #5905 of 10397
Quote:
Originally Posted by JermynStreet View Post

Patrick this is a great essay but please allow me to offer an alternative explanation. I work in water pollution law--specifically MS4s (stormwater discharge in municipalities into the sewers). One of the biggest issues facing cities water-wise is what to do with storm water once it drains from the street into the sewer system, because of all of the harsh, toxic chemicals it puts into the wastewater system. How does this relate to your shoes? Well, I just happen to know that New York city has one of the highest amounts of chemicals in storm water discharges into the wastewater system. My intuition tells me that since you are walking a shit load in a city with pretty corrosive particles in the air and water, it makes sense that your leather uppers would deteriorate faster than a less congested, less dense city with better airflow and cleaner streets (i.e. no motor oil, trash, etc.). I would be interested to hear whether there is anyone on this thread who lives in Beijing or Shanghai (where there is also a ton of pollution) has had a similar experience. I can tell you I walk 5-6 miles a day in Washington DC on my Allen Edmonds (the quality of leather of which is not comparable to Church's, C&J, Alden) and have not had nearly the same problems with the upper cracking or soles wearing down as you seem to have had. Again, no science to back this up, but just my 2 ¢ .... 

It is funny you bring this up, DWFII said that it is probably sulfuric acid in the air and water. While I only wear "beater" shoes in the rain (or try to) you are probably correct as well. Also, I think it is too much constant messing with the leather with stuff. I wouldn't discount both theories.
post #5906 of 10397
Quote:
Originally Posted by clee1982 View Post


Simpler reason, don't over care your shoe. I walk a ton in NYC and London mainly, no cracking what's so ever.

And in any case, styleforum has always been disillusional about shoe as investment, it's like calling a car you can drive for 30 years an investment. We all know we buy nice shoes because we love them, otherwise 10 pair of John Lobbs is enough to buy over 150 pair of cheap shoes (100 dollars ones) which for sure will never need to be resoled if you change everyday...

 

So true.  150 pairs of cheap shoes together will for sure last longer than 10 pairs of John Lobbs combined.

post #5907 of 10397
But we all know you will climb the corporate ladder way faster with the Lobbs rolleyes.gif
post #5908 of 10397
I don't believe anyone who owns 10 + pairs of high end shoes is primarily motived by cost effectiveness but it does work well as justification
post #5909 of 10397
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post

I don't believe anyone who owns 10 + pairs of high end shoes is primarily motived by cost effectiveness but it does work well as justification

+1 The bottom line is that; we just want nice, elegant and well-constructed shoes, once past the $300 to $400 mark, there are many reasons we find to justify going the extra mile (some times extra extra happy.gif), all for the psychological want rather than the physical need.
post #5910 of 10397
Quote:
Originally Posted by wurger View Post

+1 The bottom line is that; we just want nice, elegant and well-constructed shoes, once past the $300 to $400 mark, there are many reasons we find to justify going the extra mile (some times extra extra happy.gif), all for the psychological want rather than the physical need.

True. Also, I am much happier knowing my money is going to workers in Port Washington, WI, Middleborough, MA, or (one day) DWFII in Oregon than across the Pacific. Just like with anything, over time, there will be more domestic shoe manufacturers here in the U.S. and prices will gradually fall.

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