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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 392

post #5866 of 12392
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenjay View Post

All of the shoes shown below are from well known, high-end, quality shoe makers. Each pair of shoes is within 20% of the price of the others, and each uses a different method for attaching the outsole.

I would, and do, own each of them (for different reasons).

Edward Green - Goodyear welt - size 11.5US Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)




Berluti - Blake Stitch - size 11UK



Frommer Boots (DWFII) - Hand Welted - size Glen

 



One of the points that DWFII tries to make is that, given similar price points, why would someone not buy bespoke.

I think he has a valid point, but I do like the diversity in the styles from the different makers, and I also like instant gratification. I'm all for bespoke, but waiting a year for a pair of shoes just kills me. And, my budget does not allow for expensing 10 pair of bespoke shoes at a time.

Gorgeous,

 

 

Well Done Sir!!!!

post #5867 of 12392

Glenjay really beautiful shoes!!(btw i love the berluti at your site after the GlenKaren care !! you know that i am a wholecut addict hahaha happy.gif)

 

Gents i am always happy to see your posts!! always something new to learn and productive dialoge to make!!!icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif

 

i think that most of us have 10 and maybe more pairs of shoes!! so this means less wear than once a week! so most of our shoes ll need resole after about 10years(if you dont walk 10 miles in your brogues every time you wear them ofcourse)!! At my opinion all the 3 ways of welting can guarantee 2 resoles before the upper leather is damaged to no return point(always refering to hi-end shoes at material-constraction and not price)! that means about 30 years so then i think it's time to buy new shoes hahaha rotflmao.gif

 

for me i prefer the blake stitching but this is only an aesthetic issue!!!

i have that picture but i am not sure from were i had it!! (i think is from martegani and Ron Rider gave this to public but i am not sure) 


Edited by benhour - 6/26/13 at 7:47pm
post #5868 of 12392
Quote:
Originally Posted by benhour View Post

Glenjay really beautiful shoes!!(btw i love the berluti at your site after the GlenKaren care !! you know that i am a wholecut addict hahaha happy.gif)

 

Gents i am always happy to see your posts!! always something new to learn and productive dialoge to make!!!icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif

 

i think that most of us have 10 and maybe more pairs of shoes!! so this means less wear than once a week! so most of our shoes ll need resole after about 10years(if you dont walk 10 miles in your brogues every time you wear them ofcourse)!! At my opinion all the 3 ways of welting can guarantee 2 resoles before the upper leather is damaged to no return point(always refering to hi-end shoes at material-constraction and not price)! that means about 30 years so then i think it's time to buy new shoes hahaha rotflmao.gif

 

for me i prefer the blake stitching but this is only an aesthetic issue!!!

i have that picture but i am not sure from were i had it!! (i think is from martegani and Ron Rider gave this to public but i am not sure) 

 

Thanks for the image, Benhour. I guess I still don't quite understand the utility of the Blake Stitch versus Goodyear. I understand why handwelting is far superior, but is the advantage of the Blake Stitch just that it goes through two layers of leather and doesn't have the same issues with the gemming as goodyear welts have?

 

Thanks in advance.

post #5869 of 12392
Quote:
Originally Posted by JermynStreet View Post

 

Thanks for the image, Benhour. I guess I still don't quite understand the utility of the Blake Stitch versus Goodyear. I understand why handwelting is far superior, but is the advantage of the Blake Stitch just that it goes through two layers of leather and doesn't have the same issues with the gemming as goodyear welts have?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Blake, aka McKay, is directly stitching the uppers + insole to the out-sole using the McKay machine.  Blake Rapid is to use the McKay machine to stitch the upper+insole to the mid sole, then stitch on the outsole using the same machine that GY welting process used to stitch the outsole to the welt.  In other words, Blake Rapid construction has a midsole that functions very similar to the welt of the welted construction process (or the midsole of Norwegian construction).  That midsole of Blake Rapid or Norwegian (or the welt of welted constructions including hand welting/gy welting/storm welting) allows minimal changes to the insole during the resoling process thus prolonging the overall life of the shoes.

 

Here's a video of Blake/McKay construction process.  Note the upper is glued/nailed to the fiberboard insole, everything sanded, glued on the outsole, then using the McKay machine to stitch them together.  Channeled stitching instead of stitch aloft.

post #5870 of 12392
Quote:
Originally Posted by benhour View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

Glenjay really beautiful shoes!!(btw i love the berluti at your site after the GlenKaren care !! you know that i am a wholecut addict hahaha happy.gif)

 

Gents i am always happy to see your posts!! always something new to learn and productive dialoge to make!!!icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif

 

i think that most of us have 10 and maybe more pairs of shoes!! so this means less wear than once a week! so most of our shoes ll need resole after about 10years(if you dont walk 10 miles in your brogues every time you wear them ofcourse)!! At my opinion all the 3 ways of welting can guarantee 2 resoles before the upper leather is damaged to no return point(always refering to hi-end shoes at material-constraction and not price)! that means about 30 years so then i think it's time to buy new shoes hahaha rotflmao.gif

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

for me i prefer the blake stitching but this is only an aesthetic issue!!!

i have that picture but i am not sure from were i had it!! (i think is from martegani and Ron Rider gave this to public but i am not sure) 

 

 

This is Styleforum.  We promote excess, trade in and out of different shoes, or baby shoes like museum pieces.

 

That said, the useful life of shoes calculation is very interesting.  Lets assume

1) shoes can last 1000 miles (taken from Wolverine, or so they bragged)

2) average walk distance of 5 miles per wear

 

Then your shoes can only last 200 wears.  With a seven shoes wardrobe, that means your shoes will not last more than 4 years.

Or, if we walk only 2 miles per wear instead of 5, then that would be almost 10 years per resole.

Or, if we have 14 pairs of shoes instead of 7, then that would be almost 8 years per resole.

 

Or, maybe that 1000 miles is per resole/rebuild.

 

If we then factoring in the typical twice viable resoling/rebuilding (before cobblers stitched your welt into a mess), that would be 12 years.

Or, if we paid top dollars for top makers that offers insole replacement, that TWELVE years could be doubled to 24 years.

 

So, to prolong your shoes useful life, walk less, buy more, and/or buy from makers with a legacy and going concern.  i.e., Church's shoes post Prada acquisition will have their useful life halved due to lack of rebuilding support.

post #5871 of 12392
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

 

Blake, aka McKay, is directly stitching the uppers + insole to the out-sole using the McKay machine.  Blake Rapid is to use the McKay machine to stitch the upper+insole to the mid sole, then stitch on the outsole using the same machine that GY welting process used to stitch the outsole to the welt.  In other words, Blake Rapid construction has a midsole that functions very similar to the welt of the welted construction process (or the midsole of Norwegian construction).  That midsole of Blake Rapid or Norwegian (or the welt of welted constructions including hand welting/gy welting/storm welting) allows minimal changes to the insole during the resoling process thus prolonging the overall life of the shoes.

 

Here's a video of Blake/McKay construction process.  Note the upper is glued/nailed to the fiberboard insole, everything sanded, glued on the outsole, then using the McKay machine to stitch them together.  Channeled stitching instead of stitch aloft.

 

Very helpful. Thank you, chogall.

post #5872 of 12392

Thanks to everyone - and particularly to Money - for an interesting debate.

post #5873 of 12392

Question about a tapping problem guys.

 

I put taps on My EGs for the first time about 6 weeks ago. This evening i got home and noticed that the tap on one heel had completely worn down on one side and had a sharp jagged end sticking out. The heel tap on the other shoe had actually fallen off somewhere but the nails were still in there so i have 6 flat nail heads sticking out of the sole. this can't be good for them can it? (or any floors i walk on). how should I fix it?

post #5874 of 12392
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovlov View Post

Question about a tapping problem guys.

 

I put taps on My EGs for the first time about 6 weeks ago. This evening i got home and noticed that the tap on one heel had completely worn down on one side and had a sharp jagged end sticking out. The heel tap on the other shoe had actually fallen off somewhere but the nails were still in there so i have 6 flat nail heads sticking out of the sole. this can't be good for them can it? (or any floors i walk on). how should I fix it?

Remove nails, live with normal sole wear? :)

 

Try using a bonding agent next time you apply taps, alternately, if the shoes have a 1/4 rubber heel, you can usually have just the 1/4 replaced, versus the whole heel. 

post #5875 of 12392
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

Don't think there are any pure hand made shoes.  At the very least upper closing is done on hand guided sewing machine majority of the time.  But there are workshops that handmade lasts, hand click, hand close, and hand shoemaking, and hand finished.

As to longevity, quality of the insole is one of the most important factor IMO, as it is the most difficult part of the shoes to maintain.

I have shied away from conditioning the insoles of my gemmed shoes because I fear the conditioning oils with help to loosen the glue that holds the gemming in place. shog[1].gif I do however condition the inner lining.
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenjay View Post

One of the points that DWFII tries to make is that, given similar price points, why would someone not buy bespoke.

Well, it is simple really. DWFII is the only person that makes bespoke shoes at that price point. When you add in travel and time the price inflates to about what the expensive English bespoke makers cost, which is about 3X the cost of a Frommer Boot shoe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by benhour View Post

you know that i am a wholecut addict hahaha

I'll have something in about 3-4 months that you might like then... smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

This is Styleforum.  We promote excess, trade in and out of different shoes, or baby shoes like museum pieces.

That said, the useful life of shoes calculation is very interesting.  Lets assume
1) shoes can last 1000 miles (taken from Wolverine, or so they bragged)
2) average walk distance of 5 miles per wear

Then your shoes can only last 200 wears.  With a seven shoes wardrobe, that means your shoes will not last more than 4 years.
Or, if we walk only 2 miles per wear instead of 5, then that would be almost 10 years per resole.
Or, if we have 14 pairs of shoes instead of 7, then that would be almost 8 years per resole.

Or, maybe that 1000 miles is per resole/rebuild.

If we then factoring in the typical twice viable resoling/rebuilding (before cobblers stitched your welt into a mess), that would be 12 years.
Or, if we paid top dollars for top makers that offers insole replacement, that TWELVE years could be doubled to 24 years.

So, to prolong your shoes useful life, walk less, buy more, and/or buy from makers with a legacy and going concern.  i.e., Church's shoes post Prada acquisition will have their useful life halved due to lack of rebuilding support.

While I disagree with your Church's comment post prada. Their classic line hasn't changed a bit, however I do agree with your assessment of shoe's life.

People vastly overestimate the longevity of shoes. Of all of my cracked shoes that I created a shitstorm over a little while ago none of them are over 4 years old. Also, I find that I need resoles about once per year on all of my shoes on average. That is with about 10 pairs of shoes and admittedly used heavily. I live in NYC and walk A LOT. Does it bother me to get frequent resoles? Not at all. Cracking uppers, however does bother me, which I attribute to putting too much shit, too often on my shoes, and shoes with lower quality uppers. There is a huge difference between the look and feel of the leather used in $500 shoes compared to $1k+ shoes and even $1k shoes to bespoke shoes. Some people refuse to see this, but it is pretty evident. What am I doing about this? Well, number one buying better shoes from here on out. Just because you can get deals here and there and have more, doesn't really mean they will last, because in my experience they won't unless like you said you cherish them like museum pieces and only take them out for a ride once per month to drive to work and shuffle around a carpeted office. Also, putting less shit on my shoes less frequently. A good brushing before wears is enough for most of the time. The final thing is including more shell cordovan in my collection to increase lifespan of uppers of all shoes.

I think shoes are an interesting subject. I associate them to the Starbucks coffee. An affordable luxury. People know that a good pair of shoes makes an entire outfit look elevated and better, and they are relatively cheap to acquire (compared to bespeaking suits) and have in their minds that they are some kind of investment that will last forever. The fact is they really aren't an investment at all, and they are probably not going to last forever if you wear shoes a lot. Myself like most others in the world can't afford to buy a full wardrobe of bespoke shoes at one time and need to face the reality that your $1k+ shoes will need maintenance in both time and money. If you don't have either this isn't the game for you.
post #5876 of 12392
Quote:
Originally Posted by benhour View Post

Glenjay really beautiful shoes!!(btw i love the berluti at your site after the GlenKaren care !! you know that i am a wholecut addict hahaha happy.gif)

 

Gents i am always happy to see your posts!! always something new to learn and productive dialoge to make!!!icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif

 

i think that most of us have 10 and maybe more pairs of shoes!! so this means less wear than once a week! so most of our shoes ll need resole after about 10years(if you dont walk 10 miles in your brogues every time you wear them ofcourse)!! At my opinion all the 3 ways of welting can guarantee 2 resoles before the upper leather is damaged to no return point(always refering to hi-end shoes at material-constraction and not price)! that means about 30 years so then i think it's time to buy new shoes hahaha rotflmao.gif

 

for me i prefer the blake stitching but this is only an aesthetic issue!!!

i have that picture but i am not sure from were i had it!! (i think is from martegani and Ron Rider gave this to public but i am not sure) 

 

I assume you mean that you prefer the look of a Blake stitched shoes rather than Blake/Rapid shoes (the picture is a Blake/Rapid).  Since a Goodyear-welting machine is used to stitch the outsole on to a Blake/Rapid, there really isn't an visible difference between a Blake/Rapid and a Goodyear-welted shoe on the outside.  Blake stitched shoes that don't have the midsole stitched to the outsole are the ones that are able to have a closer cut to the upper rather than a protruding lip with stitching.  That is definitely one of the benefits of a Blake shoe over Blake/Rapid or Welted (if you are going for the more refined look that is).  

post #5877 of 12392
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

 

Blake, aka McKay, is directly stitching the uppers + insole to the out-sole using the McKay machine.  Blake Rapid is to use the McKay machine to stitch the upper+insole to the mid sole, then stitch on the outsole using the same machine that GY welting process used to stitch the outsole to the welt.  In other words, Blake Rapid construction has a midsole that functions very similar to the welt of the welted construction process (or the midsole of Norwegian construction).  That midsole of Blake Rapid or Norwegian (or the welt of welted constructions including hand welting/gy welting/storm welting) allows minimal changes to the insole during the resoling process thus prolonging the overall life of the shoes.

 

Here's a video of Blake/McKay construction process.  Note the upper is glued/nailed to the fiberboard insole, everything sanded, glued on the outsole, then using the McKay machine to stitch them together.  Channeled stitching instead of stitch aloft.

 

 

That's the first video I've seen where they actually completely finish the sole and heel as a separate unit before they attach it to the upper.  Usually all of the attaching steps are done and then the sanding, polishing, finishing steps are done.  Interesting.    

post #5878 of 12392
Quote:
Originally Posted by benhour View Post

Glenjay really beautiful shoes!!(btw i love the berluti at your site after the GlenKaren care !! you know that i am a wholecut addict hahaha happy.gif)

 

Gents i am always happy to see your posts!! always something new to learn and productive dialoge to make!!!icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif

 

i think that most of us have 10 and maybe more pairs of shoes!! so this means less wear than once a week! so most of our shoes ll need resole after about 10years(if you dont walk 10 miles in your brogues every time you wear them ofcourse)!! At my opinion all the 3 ways of welting can guarantee 2 resoles before the upper leather is damaged to no return point(always refering to hi-end shoes at material-constraction and not price)! that means about 30 years so then i think it's time to buy new shoes hahaha rotflmao.gif

 

for me i prefer the blake stitching but this is only an aesthetic issue!!!

i have that picture but i am not sure from were i had it!! (i think is from martegani and Ron Rider gave this to public but i am not sure) 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

 

This is Styleforum.  We promote excess, trade in and out of different shoes, or baby shoes like museum pieces.

 

That said, the useful life of shoes calculation is very interesting.  Lets assume

1) shoes can last 1000 miles (taken from Wolverine, or so they bragged)

2) average walk distance of 5 miles per wear

 

Then your shoes can only last 200 wears.  With a seven shoes wardrobe, that means your shoes will not last more than 4 years.

Or, if we walk only 2 miles per wear instead of 5, then that would be almost 10 years per resole.

Or, if we have 14 pairs of shoes instead of 7, then that would be almost 8 years per resole.

 

Or, maybe that 1000 miles is per resole/rebuild.

 

If we then factoring in the typical twice viable resoling/rebuilding (before cobblers stitched your welt into a mess), that would be 12 years.

Or, if we paid top dollars for top makers that offers insole replacement, that TWELVE years could be doubled to 24 years.

 

So, to prolong your shoes useful life, walk less, buy more, and/or buy from makers with a legacy and going concern.  i.e., Church's shoes post Prada acquisition will have their useful life halved due to lack of rebuilding support.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post


I have shied away from conditioning the insoles of my gemmed shoes because I fear the conditioning oils with help to loosen the glue that holds the gemming in place. shog[1].gif I do however condition the inner lining.
Well, it is simple really. DWFII is the only person that makes bespoke shoes at that price point. When you add in travel and time the price inflates to about what the expensive English bespoke makers cost, which is about 3X the cost of a Frommer Boot shoe.
I'll have something in about 3-4 months that you might like then... smile.gif
While I disagree with your Church's comment post prada. Their classic line hasn't changed a bit, however I do agree with your assessment of shoe's life.

People vastly overestimate the longevity of shoes. Of all of my cracked shoes that I created a shitstorm over a little while ago none of them are over 4 years old. Also, I find that I need resoles about once per year on all of my shoes on average. That is with about 10 pairs of shoes and admittedly used heavily. I live in NYC and walk A LOT. Does it bother me to get frequent resoles? Not at all. Cracking uppers, however does bother me, which I attribute to putting too much shit, too often on my shoes, and shoes with lower quality uppers. There is a huge difference between the look and feel of the leather used in $500 shoes compared to $1k+ shoes and even $1k shoes to bespoke shoes. Some people refuse to see this, but it is pretty evident. What am I doing about this? Well, number one buying better shoes from here on out. Just because you can get deals here and there and have more, doesn't really mean they will last, because in my experience they won't unless like you said you cherish them like museum pieces and only take them out for a ride once per month to drive to work and shuffle around a carpeted office. Also, putting less shit on my shoes less frequently. A good brushing before wears is enough for most of the time. The final thing is including more shell cordovan in my collection to increase lifespan of uppers of all shoes.

I think shoes are an interesting subject. I associate them to the Starbucks coffee. An affordable luxury. People know that a good pair of shoes makes an entire outfit look elevated and better, and they are relatively cheap to acquire (compared to bespeaking suits) and have in their minds that they are some kind of investment that will last forever. The fact is they really aren't an investment at all, and they are probably not going to last forever if you wear shoes a lot. Myself like most others in the world can't afford to buy a full wardrobe of bespoke shoes at one time and need to face the reality that your $1k+ shoes will need maintenance in both time and money. If you don't have either this isn't the game for you.

 

Have you guys really only been getting around 2 resoles from your shoes?  I have come to expect 4, maybe 5.  

 

Patrick, I think you made some very realistic and objective points there.  

post #5879 of 12392
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

Blake, aka McKay, is directly stitching the uppers + insole to the out-sole using the McKay machine.  Blake Rapid is to use the McKay machine to stitch the upper+insole to the mid sole, then stitch on the outsole using the same machine that GY welting process used to stitch the outsole to the welt.  In other words, Blake Rapid construction has a midsole that functions very similar to the welt of the welted construction process (or the midsole of Norwegian construction).  That midsole of Blake Rapid or Norwegian (or the welt of welted constructions including hand welting/gy welting/storm welting) allows minimal changes to the insole during the resoling process thus prolonging the overall life of the shoes.

Here's a video of Blake/McKay construction process.  Note the upper is glued/nailed to the fiberboard insole, everything sanded, glued on the outsole, then using the McKay machine to stitch them together.  Channeled stitching instead of stitch aloft.


That's a recent Taiwanese firm right? I wonder where they learned their craft.
post #5880 of 12392

Santoni makes some very, very nice Blake constructed shoes, a few that I own.  One that I'm wearing right now:

 

 

 

I do not, yet, own any of their Goodyear constructed shoes.  I also own one of their bologna constructed shoes, though prefer the stiffer and more snug fit of the Blakes.

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