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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 337

post #5041 of 10206
To give it a certain look and finish. I think the word "correction" in some cases shouldn't be applied. I mean it could be inferior, but it isn't always.
post #5042 of 10206
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

To give it a certain look and finish. I think the word "correction" in some cases shouldn't be applied. I mean it could be inferior, but it isn't always.

 

The information that I am able to find seems to suggest that even the "definition" of corrected grain that I sometimes subscribe to, which includes adding "fake" textures to the leather isn't necessarily truely corrected grain.  In other words, it is common for leathers that truely are corrected grain to have a texture embossed on them to create the pebbled or Scotch grain, or a fake Alligator or lizard appearance.  This is done to make them more palatable.  However, technically, a good quality leather that is simply embossed to create a texture isn't truely corrected grain even though the grain is affected by the act of embossing.  It starts to sound like semantics, but it isn't.  With good quality leather that is simply embossed, the grain layer is still intact, while with corrected grain it is sanded and may even expose part of the corium layer (which is then covered back up with a plastic like painted surface to protect the corium. 

post #5043 of 10206
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIDER View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang66 View Post

Thanks for the post, very informative.

However everything contains chemicals, in fact everything is chemicals, perhaps you mean synthetics? And it does contain solvents, water for example is a solvent, and from the document you posted

Hand protection:
"Due to the solvents present, it is recommended that polyvinyl alcohol or nitrile rubber gloves be worn"

Very interesting...thanks for pointing that out! I never even looked at the hand part....as a matter of fact, I have always used my bare hands to dab it on for a quick cleaning. Melts like hand lotion, but I need to ask about that. And no, I meant to type chemicals - but I suppose I am thinking in laymans terms. I never considered water as a solvent, but I'm not a scientist. Just a shoe salesman......

For me, when it comes to msds's, the main part of interest (and regulations) is the transport section. Whenever that section say's 'safe for transport without restrictions' our minds go straight to 'nothing harmful here to worry about'.

And, our entire industry is loaded with harmful products, processes, everything......the rare items that show up without red flags, orange X's, harmful to aquatic organisms stamps, etc., etc., etc.....we scratch our heads and ask 'can it really work?'.

I will ask the chemist about that, but it could well be like the warnings everyone puts on all aerosol cans - 'must be used with proper ventilation, dispose of in approved landfill containers' for example - knowing full well that's impractical in most cases.


I also use it bare handed, actually I use Creme Universelle, have not come across Renovateur in Japan. Never had a problem. With regard to solvents, if it is a solution, it has a solvent...
post #5044 of 10206
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIDER View Post


Very interesting...thanks for pointing that out! I never even looked at the hand part....as a matter of fact, I have always used my bare hands to dab it on for a quick cleaning. Melts like hand lotion, but I need to ask about that. And no, I meant to type chemicals - but I suppose I am thinking in laymans terms. I never considered water as a solvent, but I'm not a scientist. Just a shoe salesman......

For me, when it comes to msds's, the main part of interest (and regulations) is the transport section. Whenever that section say's 'safe for transport without restrictions' our minds go straight to 'nothing harmful here to worry about'.

And, our entire industry is loaded with harmful products, processes, everything......the rare items that show up without red flags, orange X's, harmful to aquatic organisms stamps, etc., etc., etc.....we scratch our heads and ask 'can it really work?'.

I will ask the chemist about that, but it could well be like the warnings everyone puts on all aerosol cans - 'must be used with proper ventilation, dispose of in approved landfill containers' for example - knowing full well that's impractical in most cases.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang66 View Post


I also use it bare handed, actually I use Creme Universelle, have not come across Renovateur in Japan. Never had a problem. With regard to solvents, if it is a solution, it has a solvent...

 

Yes, in chemistry, water is known as the universal solvent


Edited by MoneyWellSpent - 5/8/13 at 11:02am
post #5045 of 10206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Son Of Saphir View Post

wow.gif

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/glob
me use glob,
me always do this,
many many time.
lt very good for it,
me use lot of it,
keep leather very good and not dry,
me think it much better with many leather type,
it a good way,
leather take it easy and good,
it never bad.
Me like saphir very very much because it very very good.
every thing very good,
me like it very very much.
Me use saphir most day,
wish it every day. frown.gif
Renovater me favorite. icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif

What do you think of Saphir products? Interested in your thoughts.
post #5046 of 10206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang66 View Post

I also use it bare handed, actually I use Creme Universelle, have not come across Renovateur in Japan. Never had a problem. With regard to solvents, if it is a solution, it has a solvent...
Guys Please dont do this . Thousands of my co-workers in the plumbing and pipefitting industries are suffering and dying as a result of the improper handling of organic solvents (vocs). Nervous system disorders , organ failures , and cancers are produced by the absorption of these properties into the human body. At least we were (hopefully) being paid a living wage . Do you want to be looking for a new liver at 55 because of a shoe shine ? Take a few precautions none of these guys thought that stuff was going to bother them either . If you feel Im being alarmist just do a little research you might feel differently
post #5047 of 10206
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang66 View Post

I also use it bare handed, actually I use Creme Universelle, have not come across Renovateur in Japan. Never had a problem. With regard to solvents, if it is a solution, it has a solvent...
Guys Please dont do this . Thousands of my co-workers in the plumbing and pipefitting industries are suffering and dying as a result of the improper handling of organic solvents (vocs). Nervous system disorders , organ failures , and cancers are produced by the absorption of these properties into the human body. At least we were (hopefully) being paid a living wage . Do you want to be looking for a new liver at 55 because of a shoe shine ? Take a few precautions none of these guys thought that stuff was going to bother them either . If you feel Im being alarmist just do a little research you might feel differently

Not all VOCs are created equal, it is my understanding that the problem VOC in shoe care products is nitrobenzene, and I don't believe Creme Universelle contains that.
post #5048 of 10206

Is there a reason why cream polishes or dubbins are labeled "for smooth leather"? Do they cause problems if used w/ grain leathers?

post #5049 of 10206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang66 View Post

Not all VOCs are created equal, it is my understanding that the problem VOC in shoe care products is nitrobenzene, and I don't believe Creme Universelle contains that.
It is true all vocs are not equal neither is the effect depending on route of entry be it inhalation, absorption or ingestion .many are perfectly safe at normal temperature as they remain a liquid and thus unbreathable but when applied with bare hands we are providing a route of entry unintended by the manufacturer . Just go to the hardware store and observe how many products are labeled avoid contact with skin . The point im trying to make is that many products may seem safe and probably are as long as they are used" as intended " but before applying a solvent containing product with bare skin you should know
1- what that solvent is
2- what the lower exposure limit is
3-what is the possibility of exceeding that limit without protection
To be.honest I apply various products with with bare fingers on occasion but to do so on a regular basis is imho a very bad practice
post #5050 of 10206
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Awesome stuff, based on what Ron and Nick (offline) has said it seems that perhaps I was using too much reno. I was basically using it on the vamps every other wear. Perhaps that is my problem.

Ron, what do you feel about some people saying turpentine in these products can be damaging? Also, what is your thoughts of the Creme Universelle vs. leather lotion vs. nappa leather balm (which seems very delicate) for calf leather.

FWIW, Ron's one other other different maker are the only shoes I have that have held up... Hmmm...

Cheers.

Well, that's a simple one....it's not. I guess those that say that never went back and looked over any of my refinishing posts on here, where I have always washed.....not used, but washed...the shoes on the bench in straight turpentine. I'm not sure of too many brands that haven't passed thru my hands, and my finishes didn't flake off and the shoes didn't rot out at the seams. And the customers always sent more to me to fix up......I had many JL clients who sent fresh pairs to me and I beat the hell out of the finishing room in the UK in the results. Every pair saw a lot of turpentine. But, hey, maybe these guys know more than I do and maybe they also spent hours before the sun came up refinishing other peoples $1,000 shoes so they could make the mortgage payment that month, I don't know. But when you are in that spot, you look for things that can create a little market better than what's around, and that's when I started using turpentine as a prep in the work. Which then led me to Saphir which really gave the finishes I was doing life. It's second nature to me to understand that the actual promoting benefit of Saphir IS the turpentine. But, with that being said, there are plenty of other balm, wax & cream options out there as well......try them all and stick with what you like best. If the turpentine in Saphir is a turn off, maybe try Tarrago, which we also distribute from here and is actually our fastest growing line of products (sold thru regional distribution houses to shoe repair and shoe shops, and easily found on-line).....it's very good for $3.50 a jar. In the end, it's all just shoe polish.......not worth having a stroke over.

Part 2 - I actually prefer the Crème Universelle over the MDO Lotion, and the Nappa Balm is for just that - Nappa. Not Calfskin.....it can also be a good conditioner for kangaroo, they say.

Part 3 - which shoes? And why not the boots?
post #5051 of 10206
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Corrected grain doesn't always mean inferior.

Exactly correct. And apparently speaking inside the business and outside the business while using this term gets very different reactions. Folks, the vast majority of black calfskin on the market now (and for the last 5+ years) has to be corrected.....or there wouldn't be many black shoes on the market. And despite the call for various brown shoes in places like this, shoe factories need to sell a lot of black shoes to stay in business.
post #5052 of 10206
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIDER View Post

Cheers.

Well, that's a simple one....it's not. I guess those that say that never went back and looked over any of my refinishing posts on here, where I have always washed.....not used, but washed...the shoes on the bench in straight turpentine. I'm not sure of too many brands that haven't passed thru my hands, and my finishes didn't flake off and the shoes didn't rot out at the seams. And the customers always sent more to me to fix up......I had many JL clients who sent fresh pairs to me and I beat the hell out of the finishing room in the UK in the results. Every pair saw a lot of turpentine. But, hey, maybe these guys know more than I do and maybe they also spent hours before the sun came up refinishing other peoples $1,000 shoes so they could make the mortgage payment that month, I don't know. But when you are in that spot, you look for things that can create a little market better than what's around, and that's when I started using turpentine as a prep in the work. Which then led me to Saphir which really gave the finishes I was doing life. It's second nature to me to understand that the actual promoting benefit of Saphir IS the turpentine. But, with that being said, there are plenty of other balm, wax & cream options out there as well......try them all and stick with what you like best. If the turpentine in Saphir is a turn off, maybe try Tarrago, which we also distribute from here and is actually our fastest growing line of products (sold thru regional distribution houses to shoe repair and shoe shops, and easily found on-line).....it's very good for $3.50 a jar. In the end, it's all just shoe polish.......not worth having a stroke over.

Part 2 - I actually prefer the Crème Universelle over the MDO Lotion, and the Nappa Balm is for just that - Nappa. Not Calfskin.....it can also be a good conditioner for kangaroo, they say.

Part 3 - which shoes? And why not the boots?

Thanks for the reply, I have two pairs of boots and both are holding up just fine from you. The insane mix and match skull crushers in black Inca and black shell balmorals. Other than that only the Barker blacks (which ironically maybe? You also refinished are holding up) the barker blacks are probably about 7 or 8 years old at this point. All shoes other than yours are in crack heaven.
post #5053 of 10206
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIDER View Post


Exactly correct. And apparently speaking inside the business and outside the business while using this term gets very different reactions. Folks, the vast majority of black calfskin on the market now (and for the last 5+ years) has to be corrected.....or there wouldn't be many black shoes on the market. And despite the call for various brown shoes in places like this, shoe factories need to sell a lot of black shoes to stay in business.

 

Ron,

 

Thank you for your contribution in this forum. Things like most black shoes corrected grain is actually mind blowing information. With the inferior research that I have done, it seemed like corrected grain = bad. I was hoping if you could elaborate on why that is specific to black shoes and not brown. Also, I was wondering if there is something you look for in determining the quality of leather. Many times, shoe makers may not disclose the source of the hide, and any techniques to judge leathers would be valuable. 

 

I know your probably short on time and the subject is quite broad so, if you could just direct me to a website, that would work.

 

Thanks again!

post #5054 of 10206
All very interesting. I will now be adding Saphir back to my haircare regiment.

What is turpentine actually? I know it is somehow extracted from sap from a tree or something another, but what are the attributes that make people believe it is bad? Ron, why do you use it for finishing? What does it add to Saphir to make their products stand out? I remember Kirby saying that the turpentine acts as the driver for the oils in Saphir. As in, it penetrates allowing the oils to get into the fibers. I was always under the impression that it was used for stripping like paint thinner and such.
post #5055 of 10206
T
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIDER View Post

That's the mink oil version (the MDO Lotion is the same as Renovateur, but a more emulsified version), but I was referring to this:

http://www.riderbootshop.com/saphir-creme-universal-150ml/

Thanks for sharing!!

One question on the leather balm from Saphir that you recommend routine use of in between using cream polish, is that something like the polishes or renovateur where it needs to be brushed out and applied on a cloth or just a simple touch of the fingers and no brushing?
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