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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 334

post #4996 of 8980
Quote:
Originally Posted by laufer View Post

Chogall,

What do you recommend for the crust leather shoes from Edward Green? I do not care about the mirror shine or changing the color of the leather. I would like to nourish and maintain the existent color whatever came from the factory.

Thank you in advance.

The point if using crust leather is that they will develop fast patina from loss spray paints and antiquing creams. Which means it would be very hard to maintain the existing color unless you find the right blends/mixes of creams.

That being said, renovator takes off more pigments than Lexol from my experience. So I would (and I do) uses light colored creams (light brown) with renovator.

All new shoes need is just waxing the welt threads or at most wax the whole shoes and scuff the soles.

Or just follow Rons advise above. He's an expert.
post #4997 of 8980
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

Exactly.

Well, some read either Kirby's website or SidMashburn about the "complete" shoe shine and wanted ton"start caring" for their new shoes "right". The result is frequently accidental stripping or blurring of finishes.

Glad you took the time to clear things up here!!! Loved your and Sysdoc's good old patina threads!

Actually Sid sent me the site info before he posted it up and I said it was all good by me - a couple of small points I thought needed extra clarification, but nothing extreme. I'll have to look at it again - maybe I missed something.

Anyway, for the record (and if someone out there has misinterpreted this perhaps it is my fault) when you buy a 'better' factory shoe there should be little or no reason to do anything but wear them! Every decent factory spends an inordinate amount of time in the finishing room....if it is good enough for you to buy it, just wear them and wait until they need to be shined before tearing into them. A fast once over with a balm of your choice after every few wears and you are doing 90% of what you can to keep the finish in good shape for as long as possible. Polish as needed.
post #4998 of 8980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred G. Unn View Post

Great post Ron, thanks! Any chance of anything popping up on your Steals and Deals site soon?

Thanks -

It doesn't appear likely, no.....I am just so slammed with all the work in front of me these days I have no pursued any dead stock deals. And, they are not really out there I don't think. Most in the shoe business have stopped making stock goods (which led to good end of season - end of 3 season's ago goods on the market for cash) so left overs can be chased out of the storefronts as often as not. I think the guy in Texas and the guy in LA still get some goods though.

All of my shoes and boots sell thru at regular price, so nothing to see there on discount.

smile.gif (joke)

As far as the overall site goes, my oldest son is going to be working it shortly - exams are finished this week - so it should get back to some regular updates and attention, as I have not done a good job with it at all lately. I try, but the hours run out each day -
post #4999 of 8980
The published website usually underestimated the mentality of first time buyers of expensive shoes who eagerly want to "take care" of their brand new loot by going the whole nine yards, using some product that's designed for boston cracked shoes.
post #5000 of 8980
Scanning thru this long thread, I have a question.....why all the references to 'crust' leather? Very few shoes out there - and even fewer known around here - are made using crust leather. EG doesn't use crust. This is crust leather:

http://image.ec21.com/image/alfa007/oimg_GC03092855_CA03432352/Full_Chrome_Cow_Crust_Leather-_Natural_White.jpg

The antique finishes are simply added to the finished leathers in the polishing room of the factories - they are not hand dying, painting and finishing production shoes. If they did that they would finish around 10 pair a day....and be out of business.

Why are there so many questions regarding caring for crust leathers?
post #5001 of 8980
http://www.styleforum.net/t/62984/aniline-vs-crust-calf-pros-cons/0_100

Terminalogy might be different or incorrect as states in the above thread from '08. See Mantons and BStripe's comment.

According to my conversation with G&G, their leathers don't come "finished" and need to be antiques/finished. Except for their shoes using aniline leathers, which came coated and finished.

http://www.natanning.com/natcorpleather_glossary.htm

Also from here. Crust leather comes "unfinished" to makers. Maybe it's not at a raw state as those in your pictures but they still need to be spray dyed and finished, as oppose to the dye through aniline leathers.

Please correct me if I am wrong.
Edited by chogall - 5/7/13 at 4:35pm
post #5002 of 8980
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIDER View Post


RenoMat on brand new shoes? What the hell would anyone need to do that for? I've heard the Dubbin on finished calfskins before, and don't know where that comes from......I need to look over some of their sites I suppose.

You don't need to use Renovateur on new shoes either......no benefit there.

I guess that's the danger of the internet - when I was young we had the downtown shop with a separate repair shop in the basement and a very busy shine stand on the street - was easy to show people who were interested how to care for their shoes. Now........

 

Ron,

 

First I'd like to second (again) the appreciation for your input on this thread.  Second, two quick questions:

 

- There are a couple of recommendations for conditioner (brand non-specific) for new shoes.  I see that you recommend against Renovateur but do you also feel that a straight conditioner (like Lexol) is unnecessary as well?

- What are your thoughts on conditioning (Renovateur or otherwise) of the soles?  There have been opinions back and forth (I've done so mainly because the video on C&J's website advises to do so).

 

Thanks in advance!

post #5003 of 8980
Quote:
Originally Posted by jssdc View Post

Ron,

First I'd like to second (again) the appreciation for your input on this thread.  Second, two quick questions:

- There are a couple of recommendations for conditioner (brand non-specific) for new shoes.  I see that you recommend against Renovateur but do you also feel that a straight conditioner (like Lexol) is unnecessary as well?
- What are your thoughts on conditioning (Renovateur or otherwise) of the soles?  There have been opinions back and forth (I've done so mainly because the video on C&J's website advises to do so).

Thanks in advance!

My pleasure -

#1 - Just so I am not mis quoted into eternity.....I would never recommend 'against' Renovateur, but I also don't think any balm/conditioner is needed straight out of the box.
#2 - I also fail to see the need here - have never done it myself. I do clean up the soles on clients shoes with Reno, but I can't honestly say that using a balm on soling leather will have any positive effect. The process soling bends go thru pretty much eliminate any possibility of a simple balm absorbing into the grain. And if it did they would be poor soles that very little street wear would tear thru, and cream won't stop that.
post #5004 of 8980
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIDER View Post


My pleasure -

#1 - Just so I am not mis quoted into eternity.....I would never recommend 'against' Renovateur, but I also don't think any balm/conditioner is needed straight out of the box.
#2 - I also fail to see the need here - have never done it myself. I do clean up the soles on clients shoes with Reno, but I can't honestly say that using a balm on soling leather will have any positive effect. The process soling bends go thru pretty much eliminate any possibility of a simple balm absorbing into the grain. And if it did they would be poor soles that very little street wear would tear thru, and cream won't stop that.

 

Thanks, Ron - and my apologies for sloppy quoting.

post #5005 of 8980
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIDER View Post


My pleasure -

#1 - Just so I am not mis quoted into eternity.....I would never recommend 'against' Renovateur, but I also don't think any balm/conditioner is needed straight out of the box.
#2 - I also fail to see the need here - have never done it myself. I do clean up the soles on clients shoes with Reno, but I can't honestly say that using a balm on soling leather will have any positive effect. The process soling bends go thru pretty much eliminate any possibility of a simple balm absorbing into the grain. And if it did they would be poor soles that very little street wear would tear thru, and cream won't stop that.

So brand new out of the box Allen Edmond shoes - you would recommend the Saphir polish cream for the first few days until more maintenance was needed?  And would you continue to stick with just the Saphir polish cream - for the next 15-20 shines - before looking at a dose of Saphir Renovateur as a first step, followed by the Saphir Polish Cream?

 

David

post #5006 of 8980
The discussion of Renovateur has been very interesting for me. I often use it in place of basic conditioner, which is perhaps a bit lazy and indulgent of me. ("I bought this stuff, now I'm gonna use it as much as I can!") I'll be using normal conditioner as the first step of a usual polish from now on (and hopefully I won't see any bad results).

David, it's still reasonable to use some kind of conditioner before the normal polish. Allen Edmonds sells some for $5.
post #5007 of 8980
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Copeland View Post

So brand new out of the box Allen Edmond shoes - you would recommend the Saphir polish cream for the first few days until more maintenance was needed?  And would you continue to stick with just the Saphir polish cream - for the next 15-20 shines - before looking at a dose of Saphir Renovateur as a first step, followed by the Saphir Polish Cream?

David

Well, with A/E it depends I guess. For black, creams aren't going to do much since their black calf is corrected/sanded grain - stick with black or neutral wax for that. For the brown calfskins, just a basic routine of balm every couple of wears and colored polishing with cream as needed/a couple of times a month would be great. For the brown waxy leathers that they do now, an occasional dubbin or, better, a 'greasy leather cream' would be ideal. Or just use the balm of your choice for the casuals.....you'll be 10 steps ahead of the game regardless.
post #5008 of 8980
Ron thank you for your input on this issue it has added a lot of clarity to the discussion . I would like however to say that the comment regarding an anti -Saphir agenda was in no way intended to indict Patrick Booth rather i feel his comments were fair and unbiased considering the situation . He has stated a number of times that he continues to use the products just that he has adjusted the way he uses them I apologize if that impression was given but it is not surprising considering my propensity for verbal diarrhea
post #5009 of 8980
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIDER View Post


Well, with A/E it depends I guess. For black, creams aren't going to do much since their black calf is corrected/sanded grain - stick with black or neutral wax for that. For the brown calfskins, just a basic routine of balm every couple of wears and colored polishing with cream as needed/a couple of times a month would be great. For the brown waxy leathers that they do now, an occasional dubbin or, better
, a 'greasy leather cream' would be ideal. Or just use the balm of your choice for the casuals.....you'll be 10 steps ahead of the game regardless.

Got'cha . . . on the new black (which I will be ordering this year).  

 

As for the light brown calfskin, which I have several pairs (and many others here do too) . . . Saphir Nappa Leather Balm Medaille d'Or applied to the new shoes, followed by by Saphir Cream Polish (Color is Num 3 according to Saphir Chart) - for 15-20 shoe shine routines - before going to Saphir Dubbin, and the steps that follow?

 

(Seem my friend Makoto Chan from Osaka seems to agree on balm as well)

post #5010 of 8980
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

http://www.styleforum.net/t/62984/aniline-vs-crust-calf-pros-cons/0_100

Terminalogy might be different or incorrect as states in the above thread from '08. See Mantons and BStripe's comment.

According to my conversation with G&G, their leathers don't come "finished" and need to be antiques/finished. Except for their shoes using aniline leathers, which came coated and finished.

http://www.natanning.com/natcorpleather_glossary.htm

Also from here. Crust leather comes "unfinished" to makers. Maybe it's not at a raw state as those in your pictures but they still need to be spray dyed and finished, as oppose to the dye through aniline leathers.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Ahhh....well, like many terms in our business, the younger, more marketing savvy folks have 'co-opted' some of the true definitions.

Crust is crust - there are not various degrees of 'crust'. There are only partially finished skins, and that is probably what they are describing. I also order a calf from Annonay called 'Iron', which is semi-finished and then suitable to add handfinishing to the base color........far less work with virtually the same effect. I can get it in 4 different bases to work from. If any brand is really using calf in the crust, they would be making a big play in advertising showing all the time and effort it takes to build a finish, as it would take them longer to do that than to hand inseam the shoes themselves. Time is money, as usual.

Aniline is a chemical....a dye. It is formulated to absorb into the grain, but it's been a very long time since I have seen a fully struck thru aniline calfskin show up. At most 30% absorption I would guess.

It's also funny when customers ask, or express concern, about the ingredients in various shoe care formulations. When compared to the highly toxic and deadly chemicals and formulations for tanning and finishing leather, like aniline, shoe care products look like bottled water.
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