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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 328

post #4906 of 11256
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post


I didnt catch on till he refered to Dylan as Dillon thanks for the confirmation . Things must be slow in Montana

Opps . . . thanks for the typo alert.  Yes, I got my D's mixed up . . . Dylan in the Village - and Dillon, Montana (which is always my last fuel stop when heading towards Utah on the I-15).

 

Dillon, Montana - last major fuel stop heading toward Idaho, Utah, and beyond

post #4907 of 11256
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Copeland View Post

Well, Tristan knows better - that's for sure - but that's what media hounds do.

 

What is strange is that Tristan holds a degree in Arts - has some great photography at his web site - which I had asked that he share in the photo topic - can't find a job for all this time - so he uses the shoe polish and products found at this website to work our of his truck as a mobile "polish your bumper and interior" line of work, which is great if you want to keep a roof over your head.  Much better to work at a "job" than try and get into a closed field in your "profession" and starve.  But it is obvious to many here he has anger issues and bites down on other members of this site like an East-Bay pit bull who won't let up - all to prove to "someone" that his self-esteem is in tact.

 

Well, I've said my piece - and I feel better now that I took the defensive approach to answering a gnat's angst to get attention [ wink ] 

please stop huffing that Saphir you bought last week, it's clearly affecting your brain. 

post #4908 of 11256
I might make a product video on how to use Saphir to style your hair. Might serve better there. ...Or it might give me split ends.
post #4909 of 11256
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

tinfoil.gif
Frank Zappa wrote and recorded a song about moving to Montana and starting a dental.floss ranch. Still appropriate I see
post #4910 of 11256
Couple of questions if I may:

1. How often does one apply Renovateur and Pommadier on shoes that do not get worn very often (2-3 times per month)?
2. Does one apply Renovateur to brand new shoes before wearing them for the first time?
post #4911 of 11256
Quote:
Originally Posted by B-Rogue View Post

Couple of questions if I may:

1. How often does one apply Renovateur and Pommadier on shoes that do not get worn very often (2-3 times per month)?
2. Does one apply Renovateur to brand new shoes before wearing them for the first time?

1. Really depends how you wear your shoes; distance walked, weather condition, etc. I would not use cream more often than every quarter if its that infrequently used and renovator less.

2. No. It will alter the original finish. Worse product for new shoes is Renomat. Best thing you could do to new shoes is to use light color or neutral wax to soften up the shoes and condition the waxed threads.
post #4912 of 11256

More speculation on some facts.

 

You can drive water out of substances, I presume including leather, by using volatile organic compounds. I don't know what is in Renomat, but based on the smell I suspect it must contain VOC's. Some VOC's also can be used to extract wax and oil from leather. I have found references to doing this with hexane. Put these properties together, and it would be possible to remove both water and wax from leather with organic solvents. If these were not replaced, then the leather could become stiff. It seems possible that Renovateur might restore fat (although I don't know just what is in it), but it seems unlikely to replace water.

 

So... I could believe that regularly treating leather with something like Renomat, and not hydrating, could stiffen the leather and lead to cracking.

 

Humidor for shoes: This is SF. I am sure there are people on this forum who store all their clothing in climate controlled structures, with filtered air, and UV-free light (or maybe with UV air treatment to retard mold??). 

 

But as the leather experts have said, leather is tough. If it only remained useful for a short time without elaborate treatments that did not exist until 100 years ago, then it could never have been a valuable substance for thousands of years. Perhaps using modern chemicals on leather can create the need for yet more modern chemicals to undo the effects of the first treatment. Absent some special type of leather, or some perhaps ill advised treatment, caring for leather should be pretty simple.

 

Some actual leather experts, shoemakers and folks in the tannery business, used to comment on this site, I hope some speak up.

post #4913 of 11256
If you actually wear your shoes, there should be more than enough moisture from perspiration, no?
post #4914 of 11256
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbhdnhdbh View Post

More speculation on some facts.

You can drive water out of substances, I presume including leather, by using volatile organic compounds. I don't know what is in Renomat, but based on the smell I suspect it must contain VOC's. Some VOC's also can be used to extract wax and oil from leather. I have found references to doing this with hexane. Put these properties together, and it would be possible to remove both water and wax from leather with organic solvents. If these were not replaced, then the leather could become stiff. It seems possible that Renovateur might restore fat (although I don't know just what is in it), but it seems unlikely to replace water.

So... I could believe that regularly treating leather with something like Renomat, and not hydrating, could stiffen the leather and lead to cracking.

Humidor for shoes: This is SF. I am sure there are people on this forum who store all their clothing in climate controlled structures, with filtered air, and UV-free light (or maybe with UV air treatment to retard mold??). 

But as the leather experts have said, leather is tough. If it only remained useful for a short time without elaborate treatments that did not exist until 100 years ago, then it could never have been a valuable substance for thousands of years. Perhaps using modern chemicals on leather can create the need for yet more modern chemicals to undo the effects of the first treatment. Absent some special type of leather, or some perhaps ill advised treatment, caring for leather should be pretty simple.

Some actual leather experts, shoemakers and folks in the tannery business, used to comment on this site, I hope some speak up.
Of course renomat contains voc it is intended as a wax stripper. To fault it for that is like saying you should not use wine to get intoxicated because it contains alcohol . I am not sure how Patrick Booths issues with Renovateur evolved into this Renomat witch hunt . A couple of posters up asked a question about Renovateur and the individual who proported to answer his question launched into a condemnation of Renomat as " the worse thing you can do to new shoes "Renomat is a wax stripper guys ,a special purpose tool rarely if ever needed on properly cared for shoes .I am sure this anti - Saphir agenda is confusing at best and patently false at worst. Imo It defeats the purpose of this thread that is the passing of helpful info from one to another I think we would all benefit by ceasing to confuse our opinions with facts and accept them for what they are, just opinions
Personally I dont hold that Saphir shoe care products necessarily are the best , as evidenced by PBs' problems , but neither is it the evil shoe destroying crap others seem intent on convincing us it is .
I would hope any newcomers would use the power of discretionary thinking and extend their research beyond this petty little internet pissing match
post #4915 of 11256
Which part of recommending against using wax stripping liquid on brand new shoes is incorrect??? Or the recommendation against using wax stripper every couple of months???

The products themselves are fine. Nothing against them and I have a closet full.

But those praising them as one stop solution to shoe care are questionable. And some of the process recommended or the frequency of the recommended application is certainly misleading at best. Some myth is worth debunking.

This conversation did not come up until some people bleached their brand new shoes with the presidential regime...
post #4916 of 11256
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbhdnhdbh View Post

You can drive water out of substances, I presume including leather, by using volatile organic compounds. I don't know what is in Renomat, but based on the smell I suspect it must contain VOC's.

Here (Consulter la fiche de sécurité) is a MSDS of Renomat, which contains 10–25% isohexane, 25–50% chlorobenzene, 2.5–10% butyl acetate, and 2.5–10% surfactant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbhdnhdbh View Post

Some VOC's also can be used to extract wax and oil from leather. I have found references to doing this with hexane. Put these properties together, and it would be possible to remove both water and wax from leather with organic solvents. If these were not replaced, then the leather could become stiff. It seems possible that Renovateur might restore fat (although I don't know just what is in it), but it seems unlikely to replace water.

I don't know whether VOC decreases a water(moisture) content of leather, even if VOC decreases, the decrease would be only a temporary phenomenon and be spontaneously restored from surrounding air, because a water content of leather is determined by relative humidity. Weinheimer leder proposes a relative humidity of 60–70% for storage, but it is so high that used leathers will mold. I feel leathers need a relative humidity of 50–60%.

FIG.8 from here.
7d2ee3ab.jpg


By the way, if you need to moisturize, here is a new product, Mizuno Pro Leather Care Slime, which contains hyaluronan, non-ionic surfactant, and copolymer. While Lexol cleaner contains glycerin as a moisturizing agent, I feel hyaluronan is expensive and excessive.

2012-04-03%2012.02.34.jpg2012-04-03%2012.08.33.jpg
post #4917 of 11256
delete
Edited by VegTan - 5/6/13 at 3:57am
post #4918 of 11256
Some people like a mirror shine on their shoes. Apparently maintaining this involves applying many layers of wax. Keeping the shine apparently requires frequent repetition. This would lead to accumulation of wax. The wax may attract dust and dirt. So the shoes could become caked with dirt-impregnated wax. That might require regular stripping of the wax with something like Renomat. Since this removes fat, something like Renovateur might be needed to replace the oils removed by the Renomat. At this point the leather could be oiled, but still dehydrated. Repeated cycles of stripping out fat and replacing it, and not replacing the water, might be harmful.

Since I don't want a shine, I use little to no wax, and hence have no need to remove it. But my approach will never produce that mirror shine so many desire.

If you apply lots of wax, you may find yourself obligated to do some variation of periodic stripping and re-oiling. I'm no expert, but this does not sound like it would be good for leather.

For someone who lives in NYC and spends a lot on shoes, it may make sense to just turn maintenance over to B Nelson. The cost may be trivial compared to losing expensive shoes to cracking after a few years. And you would be sure the job would be done right.

I am too cheap to go that route, and I like to tinker. Hence all the study of leather chemistry.
post #4919 of 11256
New Saphir catalogue on A fine Pair of Shoes:

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0060/5272/files/GUIDE_MEDAILLE_DOR_GB.pdf?2382

Good place for UK members to get their fix of product and brushes

Lear
post #4920 of 11256
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbhdnhdbh View Post

Some people like a mirror shine on their shoes. Apparently maintaining this involves applying many layers of wax. Keeping the shine apparently requires frequent repetition. This would lead to accumulation of wax. The wax may attract dust and dirt. So the shoes could become caked with dirt-impregnated wax. That might require regular stripping of the wax with something like Renomat. Since this removes fat, something like Renovateur might be needed to replace the oils removed by the Renomat. At this point the leather could be oiled, but still dehydrated. Repeated cycles of stripping out fat and replacing it, and not replacing the water, might be harmful.

Since I don't want a shine, I use little to no wax, and hence have no need to remove it. But my approach will never produce that mirror shine so many desire.

If you apply lots of wax, you may find yourself obligated to do some variation of periodic stripping and re-oiling. I'm no expert, but this does not sound like it would be good for leather.

For someone who lives in NYC and spends a lot on shoes, it may make sense to just turn maintenance over to B Nelson. The cost may be trivial compared to losing expensive shoes to cracking after a few years. And you would be sure the job would be done right.

I am too cheap to go that route, and I like to tinker. Hence all the study of leather chemistry.
I could not agree more with what you just said and with the post above . What i found objectionable was the seeming attack on a particular brand of shoe care products which I and others I 'm sure, have used many times to good result. If it was not your intent encourage newcomers to to avoid Saphir products altogether than I sincerely apologize but I have to say that was certainly the impression I got from your posts . then again I probably appear to some to be some sort of Saphir company shill and that could not be farther from the truth .
As for the presidential shine procedure I have used it on 3-4 pair of my calf shoes once each and while I observed no ill effect neither was i particularly impressed seemed a bit of a waste of time but then I buff and brush after each wearing,use very little products and seldom if ever apply paste wax. I do apply a light amount of dubbin to the vamp if they start looking beat but this is not needed more than every11/2-2 yrs
I have used Renomat to good end to restore overwaxed vintage shoes and I also find it useful to revive beaten upper welt faces by scrubbing it on with a tooth brush drying and recoditioning
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