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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 325

post #4861 of 10692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crat View Post

This is how I 'do' cordovan. Definitely not the one and only way but it works fine for me. I'm no cordovan expert so any thoughts and suggestions are welcome.
Free background noises from planes, birds, the neighbour and a housemate.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 


 

 

 

Thanks so much for the video (trumpet lessons and all!)

 

Question - Do you own any calfskin shoes where you can shoe us what has worked for you?

 

Question - What is the type of brush you used in the video?  And would it be good on calfskin too?  Is so, would placing a cloth over the brush be of any value in polishing Calfskin - or just stay with Horsehair?

 

Thanks,

 

David

Montana - USA

post #4862 of 10692
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post I've always been under the impression that water is the enemy.
 

And you're referring to Shell?  Hmmm . . . see the following video:

 

 

post #4863 of 10692
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Copeland View Post

Thanks so much for the video (trumpet lessons and all)
I'll tell my neighbour her play was much ppreciated : )

I don't really do anything special with my calf skin shoes, as far as maintenance is concerned. I just apply a very, very thin layer of wax once in a while and then brush it out after 15+ min with a horsehair brush. Wouldnt use a nailbrush like I'm using on the cordovan for calfskin unlses its church's bookbinder leather. (Thats is calf, isnt it?)

The cotton cloth is only placed over the nail brush as the bristles are so stiff that they will make small scratches on the cordovn if I don't. By covering the brush with a cloth I can still use the higher pressure exterted by the stiff bristles without scratching the cordovan.
post #4864 of 10692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crat View Post


I'll tell my neighbour her play was much ppreciated : )

I don't really do anything special with my calf skin shoes, as far as maintenance is concerned. I just apply a very, very thin layer of wax once in a while and then brush it out after 15+ min with a horsehair brush. Wouldnt use a nailbrush like I'm using on the cordovan for calfskin unlses its church's bookbinder leather. (Thats is calf, isnt it?)

The cotton cloth is only placed over the nail brush as the bristles are so stiff that they will make small scratches on the cordovn if I don't. By covering the brush with a cloth I can still use the higher pressure exterted by the stiff bristles without scratching the cordovan.
 

 

I am not sure what city or country you are in - but, yes - tell her the tunes were just heard in Montana - and that we have a spot here at the Little Bighorn National Monument - where the famous General Custer could have used a little better tune -  before the Apache's took him out in 1876. [ Grim & Grin ]

 

So you have found that less is best for the Calfskin too.  I have been working myself through the 5-step Process of the five Saphir Products recommended - and although they cost more - they need a LOT LESS application than other brands.  At this rate, my Saphir Products should last over a year.

post #4865 of 10692
This thread is hopeless.

Pebble grain is for the look, however it is also a form of correction. Does it mean the leather is bad? Maybe in shitty shoes, not the good stuff, however.

I honestly feel like it doesn't matter all that much what you do with she'll cordovan based on how it is tanned and how the finish lays on it.

I stick by the less is more approach. Oh yeah, and not relying on renovateur for conditioning.
post #4866 of 10692
Quote:
Originally Posted by joiji View Post

Unfortunately being located in Australia makes sourcing products hard. Would anyone in this thread be willing to proxy me a small (2-4oz) container of Lexol, Venetian and possibly Bick4? Preferably someone who has these all easily accessible without having to mail order from somewhere, but I won't rule that out.

 

Amazon doesn't seem to want to ship anything outside of the US, otherwise I'd just do an order from there. Maybe a use for a mail forwarder, I suppose.

 

PM me.

post #4867 of 10692
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

This thread is hopeless. I stick by the less is more approach. Oh yeah, and not relying on renovateur for conditioning.

 

Yes, I think we all got how you feel.

post #4868 of 10692
Just because you're butthurt about my conclusion about your beloved Reno doesn't mean you should ignore cold hard experience. Let this sink in: I was you.
post #4869 of 10692
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Pebble grain is for the look, however it is also a form of correction. Does it mean the leather is bad? Maybe in shitty shoes, not the good stuff, however.

OK, can you explain how it is also a form of correction?
post #4870 of 10692
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Just because you're butthurt about my conclusion about your beloved Reno doesn't mean you should ignore cold hard experience. Let this sink in: I was you.

 

Sorry, Patrick . . . you may have been me when first introduce to one (1) Saphir product, which by itself is not solely recommended for long term maintenance - but you are not me.  

 

Before I invested time and money - I spoke to several retail owners of the product, and I read every bit of the written instructions, procedures, required drying time, and recommended use  - before I experimented in my shoes.  What makes us different is . . . if the same issue you experienced in cracked leather over 2-3 years - happened to me - I would have picked up the phone and called the owner again, and would have followed up by email of photos.  I would not take the chance in assuming it was Saphir's product that may have caused all of my shoes to crack.  I need to be able to look myself in the mirror at night and say that I did all that I could to correct the insanity of losing my shoes to leather cracks - even if it meant I was at fault because I may have overlooked one or two steps that was clearly outlined - or at least clearly available to me on the phone.

 

Patrick - please don't give up on your shoes by making an assumption before you have spoken to the owners at B Nelson and/or Hangerproject.

 

If in the end I begin to experience cracked leather on all of my shoes in 2-3 years after using the 2, 3, 4, and 5-step Saphir products process - then, yes - I will be a part of your camp.  But not before.

 

David

post #4871 of 10692
post #4872 of 10692
Quote:
I don't know where you get the idea that water is integral.

Well, start with this from "Tanning Chemistry: the Science of Leather"

 

 

 

Quote:

An important part of the structure of collagen is the role of water, which is an integral part of the structure of collagen and hence of its chemically modified derivatives.... (Chapt 1, 1.4, p. 10)

 

The involvement of water in structure is an important feature of collagen, because it influences the relationships between drying and subsequent leather properties. If the drying conditions are severe enough to remove water close to the triple helix, the fibre structure can approach close enough to allow the formation of additional chemical bonds. This adversely affects the strength of the leather by embrittling the fibre structure and the handle or feel of the leather is stiffended.( page 13)

 

 

 

The water in collagen can be divided into three main groups: structural water, bound water, and bulk water. Bulk water has a liquid-like character and can form ice crystals at 0oC. Bound water exhibits a structure between solid and liquid, and does not freeze at 0oC. Structural water molecules are part of the fibre structure and behave like a solid.

 

In the earliest stage of drying there may be sufficient bulk water on the surface of a leather for it to act like a liquid water surface. Evaporation occurs at a constant rate, which is proportional to the surface area of the leather (A), mass transfer coefficient (Kg) and to the difference between the vapor pressure of the water at the surface temperature (Ps) and the partial pressure of water in the air (Pa). Chap 18, Drying, p.421-422)

 

 

 

 

They go on to explain that excessive drying removes structural water from the surface, resulting in irreversible crosslinking of collagen fibrils and stiffness of the leather.

 

When museums store leather artifacts, they do not treat them with anything, but maintain the relative humidity at an optimal level to avoid both mold formation and drying of the leather. Of course, these specimens will not be worn, or otherwise used. If they are handled at all, it will be very carefully, with no flexing. Care of shoes one will wear trades off longevity (museums would like their leather objects to last hundreds of years) for practicality (useful for something during its life).

 

So leather needs to be kept at the right level of hydration. If it gets too low, the leather can be irreversibly damaged. It will get stiff, and will be prone to cracking when flexed. If shoes are stored at too low a humidity and the moisture is not restored, then stiffness and cracking would be expected.

post #4873 of 10692
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Copeland View Post

 

Sorry, Patrick . . . you may have been me when first introduce to one (1) Saphir product, which by itself is not solely recommended for long term maintenance - but you are not me.  

 

David

 

Hangar Project themselves recommends using Saphir Renovateur alone:

 

"We recommend for the Renovateur to be used alone as a routine maintenance product as well as between coats of cream/wax as a cleaner and conditioner"

 

http://www.hangerproject.com/closet/saphir-renovateur.html#.UYMHx5WFH6M

 

i (and i bet others) have never heard that it requires 2 or more additional Saphir products.

post #4874 of 10692
Sorry to burst bubbles here, it I've been using renovateur way before hanger project ever carried it. Hanger project is in the business of selling products. I have many more years of experience using Saphir. Hanger Project doesn't.
post #4875 of 10692
Also like I said in the other thread the only other products I've used on my shoes is saphir, both cream and wax. Actually to make matters worse on my long time Lexol treated shoes, they didn't receive Saphir cream or wax until years into wearing and those are the only shoes that AREN'T cracking.
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