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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 270

post #4036 of 10206
Quote:
Originally Posted by dddrees View Post

Has anyone here had any actual experiences with trying to use Saphir Renovateur on white shoes.

 

Right or wrong I am starting to have doubts tyhat this might not be such a good thing and may change the nice white to something a bit to dull.

 

 

Anybody have any thoughts?

 

Actuall experience of course would be alot better.

Saphir has a Shoe Polish Creme Surfine Pommadier SAPHIR in WHITE;

Here:

http://www.valmour.com/catalogue/index.php?action=consulter&rewrite=1&support=7&id=3&id_cdt=7&start=0&id_couleur=15

You can buy it from this site, or you can order with a local distributor.

post #4037 of 10206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerry Nelson View Post

I have a few questions for those of you that achieve a mirror shine on a regular basis (and I know that there are quite a few here):

 

  • How many layers would you expect to put on bench grade leather starting from scratch before you get a true mirror?
  • Do you consistently get a mirror shine in the same amount of time when starting from scratch?
  • Time-wise, when you take that little dot of polish and start swirling it around on the leather with the water droplets, how long do you do this before you breath on the leather and continue?
  • How much pressure do you use - the weight of your hand or lighter/heavier?

 

 

Sorry for all the questions - I find that I'm not getting consistent results and want to drill down on where my technique is going off. I don't do this on all my shoes but I'd like to be able to get a consistent result when I do.

 

Many thanks in advance.

1. countless... depending on that particular shoe (see example here: http://www.styleforum.net/t/72565/rock-your-socks-show-your-sock-shoe-pant-combos/10770_30#post_6155199 post# 10781

2. not necessarily; depends on the type of leather and factory finish; these Church's required more work than other brands, but the shine is excellent

3. difficult to quantify... when I "feel" I should take some more; I don't actually take a dot, i tap into the tin of wax once

4.   more when starting and gradually reducing as shine develops; I don't spray or spit water, I dip my finger tip and transfer the droplet to the shoe.

Hope this helps.

post #4038 of 10206
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhunter View Post

1. countless... depending on that particular shoe (see example here: http://www.styleforum.net/t/72565/rock-your-socks-show-your-sock-shoe-pant-combos/10770_30#post_6155199 post# 10781

2. not necessarily; depends on the type of leather and factory finish; these Church's required more work than other brands, but the shine is excellent

3. difficult to quantify... when I "feel" I should take some more; I don't actually take a dot, i tap into the tin of wax once

4.   more when starting and gradually reducing as shine develops; I don't spray or spit water, I dip my finger tip and transfer the droplet to the shoe.

Hope this helps.

 

More than you can imagine. It reinforces what I've been experiencing. I think that for the shoes I'm working on now, it's simply a matter of time - I can see the glaze developing compared to the other parts of the shoe but I was concerned that it should have been coming along more quickly. The shined part does feel significantly smoother and the cloth now glides a lot more smoothly than it did initially.

 

Thank you! thumbs-up.gif

post #4039 of 10206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerry Nelson View Post

I have a few questions for those of you that achieve a mirror shine on a regular basis (and I know that there are quite a few here):
  • How many layers would you expect to put on bench grade leather starting from scratch before you get a true mirror?
  • Do you consistently get a mirror shine in the same amount of time when starting from scratch?
  • Time-wise, when you take that little dot of polish and start swirling it around on the leather with the water droplets, how long do you do this before you breath on the leather and continue?
  • How much pressure do you use - the weight of your hand or lighter/heavier?


Sorry for all the questions - I find that I'm not getting consistent results and want to drill down on where my technique is going off. I don't do this on all my shoes but I'd like to be able to get a consistent result when I do.

Many thanks in advance.

I can't wait to see the response you get to these questions. There are so many skilled people in this thread, that each have their own take on this process, and what works for them.

Here is my 2 cents worth:

I always start with a base of a well brushed cream polish shine. This allows me to know that the shoe has received at least some conditioning from the oils in the cream polish, and that the wax in the cream polish has covered most minor imperfections in the leather that I might encounter. So, in my opinion, a good mirror shine starts with a good brush shine of cream polish.

The number of layers depends on the slight contours of the leather I am trying to mirror shine. A broad, relatively flat, quarter brogue, cap toe is the ideal surface for a mirror shine. Getting the same level of mirror shine on the toe of a wholecut usually takes me more layers of paste. I use very thin layers of hard paste that is high in Carnauba wax (I even made my own blend specifically for this purpose). It usually takes me between 4 to 6 layers to get a mirror shine on the aforementioned cap toe. I can usually get a mirror shine on any toe in no more than 8 to 10 very thin coats. Because the number of coats vary by the toe, so does the time. I could probably put a mirror shine on a cap toe in around 10 minutes if I needed to, but I prefer to enjoy the process and do it at a leisurely pace.

Because I use a hard paste, it goes from haze to shine in around 20 seconds of rubbing (I then rub a little more). I try to avoid heavy breathing around my shoes (it concerns my wife), so I don't breathe on the leather, I just add another coat. I find the trick is in the amount of moisture in the applicator at a given time. I start with more moisture in the applicator for the first coat, and almost no moisture for the last coat. I add moisture as needed. It should feel like you are pushing the paste, not pulling the paste.

Pressure is a pretty important factor, and is more of an experience type of thing because it is so tactile. I would say that you start with a heavy hand and finish with a light hand. Pushing too hard can smear previous layers and impede the process. You can also oxidize the wax by using too much water, which traps the oxygen in the wax and causes hazy areas in the wax coat.
post #4040 of 10206
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwhunter View Post

Saphir has a Shoe Polish Creme Surfine Pommadier SAPHIR in WHITE;

Here:

http://www.valmour.com/catalogue/index.php?action=consulter&rewrite=1&support=7&id=3&id_cdt=7&start=0&id_couleur=15

You can buy it from this site, or you can order with a local distributor.

 

Thanks for the information.

 

This should be a lot better than neutral, and I also noticed that they carry beige which I will need as well.

 

However I'm still trying to figure out whether I should use the Saphir Renovateur Cleaner Conditioner on the white portion of the shoe. This has me a bit concerned, and I was wondering if anyone has had any experience using this on a white colored shoe?

 

 

post #4041 of 10206

Thanks, glenjay, for that very comprehensive reply. There's a lot of material about shining but these details aren't really covered. I'm looking forward to hearing what experiences others have.

 

I am actually trying to polish a flat quarter-brogue cap toe so your words are encouraging.

post #4042 of 10206

Any tips on caring for Allen Edmonds' blue leather Neumoks?  It is not part of the rough collection, but the texture also does not feel particularly amenable to my ordinary routine of Reno followed by cream.  Anyone have any advice?

post #4043 of 10206
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddgdl View Post

Any tips on caring for Allen Edmonds' blue leather Neumoks?  It is not part of the rough collection, but the texture also does not feel particularly amenable to my ordinary routine of Reno followed by cream.  Anyone have any advice?

 

Leather lotion should be appropriate for most of the cleaning/care you will perform on that shoe.

post #4044 of 10206
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenjay View Post


I would really not suggest this course of action.

What is really happening here is that as the oils liquefy from the heat they fill into the areas of the creased leather that they have been pushed out of. This is a short term fix at best, but the real down side is that as the oil is heated it begins to oxidize. The more heat the greater the oxidation. Oxidation is how oil becomes rancid. And, while this happens naturally over time, sticking your shoe in a 130F oven will accelerate the process.

Think of pouring some cooking oil in a frying pan, heat it to 130F, then pour it back into the bottle and stick it in the pantry. In 6 months you won't want to open that bottle and take a sniff.

If there is any moisture in the shoe (from perspiration, etc...) the problem is even worse because the moisture that is quickly evaporating from the leather is also pulling some of the lubricating oils out of the cellular structure as the moisture is pulled to the surface. Which is why you don't want to rapidly dry a wet shoe.

 

I just wanted to say that I really enjoy your "microscopic" approach to shoe care.  You have a very thorough understanding of what is happening to shoe leather that can't be seen by the naked eye. 

post #4045 of 10206
two questions
1. glenjay do you simply heat the carnuba and blend it with wax polish or is it more involved than that id like to make some of my own if you would rather keep it private no prob i understand
2. I have read in a number of posts that during recrafting the insoles cannot be replaced if this is indeed the case can anyone explain why not
post #4046 of 10206
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post

two questions
1. glenjay do you simply heat the carnuba and blend it with wax polish or is it more involved than that id like to make some of my own if you would rather keep it private no prob i understand
2. I have read in a number of posts that during recrafting the insoles cannot be replaced if this is indeed the case can anyone explain why not

 

Regarding #2: You may benefit from watching some shoe making videos if this isn't understood. 

 

Here are some good ones:

 

Allen Edmonds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVihz2DbPd8

 

Barker

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JYB7Y_6I3I

 

Crockett & Jones

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRYBZngdUrQ

 

Cheaney

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyeoMvgoos0

 

Edward Green

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_0hczSirzY

 

How To Make Shoes - Gentleman's Gazette

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZzisSt-wlI

 

Essentially, the insole is the foundation of the shoe from which everything else is built and attached.  The insole is temporarily attached to the bottom of the last with tacks... the gemming rib (goodyear-welted shoes) or hold-fast (hand-welted shoes) is attached to the bottom of the insole (or carved from the bottom of the insole on hand-welted shoes)... the shoe upper is wrapped around the last and tacked to the gemming rib or hold-fast... the welt is stitched through the upper to the gemming rib or hold-fast...  the sole is stitched to the welt.  If you rip out the insole, the rest of the shoe will start to fall apart.     


Edited by MoneyWellSpent - 2/26/13 at 1:02pm
post #4047 of 10206
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyWellSpent View Post


Essentially, the insole is the foundation of the shoe from which everything else is built and attached.  The insole is temporarily attached to the bottom of the last with tacks... the gemming rib (goodyear-welted shoes) or hold-fast (hand-welted shoes) is attached to the bottom of the insole (or carved from the bottom of the insole on hand-welted shoes)... the shoe upper is wrapped around the last and tacked to the gemming rib or hold-fast... the welt is stitched through the upper to the gemming rib or hold-fast...  the sole is stitched to the welt.  If you rip out the insole, the rest of the shoe will start to fall apart.     

So during a recraft the insole is not taken apart from the welt and upper?
post #4048 of 10206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winston S. View Post


So during a recraft the insole is not taken apart from the welt and upper?

 

No.  This may be theoretically possible if carefully done with a hand-made shoe by a bespoke shoemaker.  However, what that would essentially amount to is completely remaking the shoe using the same leather upper.  Consider it for a second...  Since the entire shoe construction process is begun with the insole, you would have to remove every component of the shoe piece by piece in order to get the insole separated.   

 

EDIT: I would just add that even though this is theoretically possible for a bespoke shoe maker to do, I've never heard of it being done.  They would certainly charge you for a new pair of shoes since they would be essentially starting from scratch on building it. 

post #4049 of 10206
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyWellSpent View Post

I just wanted to say that I really enjoy your "microscopic" approach to shoe care.  You have a very thorough understanding of what is happening to shoe leather that can't be seen by the naked eye. 
Thank you very much, that means a lot to me coming from someone with your depth of knowledge.
post #4050 of 10206
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenjay View Post


Thank you very much, that means a lot to me coming from someone with your depth of knowledge.

 

My knowledge of all things shoe care as they relate to this thread are quite elementary compared to yours.  Shoe construction and the mechanics of it are my passion, and my knowledge starts to drop off after that. 

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