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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 1255

post #18811 of 19067

I should've been more forthcoming: I asked a loaded question to which I knew the answer. I can't rationalize why you would do a full resole on a high grade shoe solely because it's a high grade, implying a mid-low grade should be left to a half resole. Maybe I can't think of a good reason because there isn't one--it's a matter of doing the work correctly. 

post #18812 of 19067
Quote:
Originally Posted by San780 View Post

C&J is quoting me 160 euros for a resole... I find it extremely expensive indeed.

I'd guess that is a full refurb. That's roughly $180USD, which I wouldn't consider bad if well done on shoes I really like.

If it is just the sole, you can do much better with a good cobbler.
post #18813 of 19067
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbhan12 View Post

Does the 'grade' of the shoe make a difference when choosing between a half sole and a full sole? Specifically, would you do a half sole on a Meermin/AE shoe rather than a full sole? If so, why? 

IMO the grade does not matter as long as you invested enough in the shoe to make it worthy of the repair. I've written before, I wouldn't put a 1/2 sole on my own shoe so, why put one on a customers?
To me, a 1/2 sole equates to patch-work both to the out sole and the cork footbed. Add to that, when the sole is stitched on, the new stitching slightly overlaps the old stitching. Something I don't particularly care for.

I just wanted to add, most are not aware, sole guards come in various thicknesses. Some are thinner than a dime. With the thinner ones by the time the sole guard and sole are roughed the net/net difference is so slight that the impact on balance is basically inconsequential.
post #18814 of 19067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post

IMO the grade does not matter as long as you invested enough in the shoe to make it worthy of the repair. I've written before, I wouldn't put a 1/2 sole on my own shoe so, why put one on a customers?
To me, a 1/2 sole equates to patch-work both to the out sole and the cork footbed. Add to that, when the sole is stitched on, the new stitching slightly overlaps the old stitching. Something I don't particularly care for.

I just wanted to add, most are not aware, sole guards come in various thicknesses. Some are thinner than a dime. With the thinner ones by the time the sole guard and sole are roughed the net/net difference is so slight that the impact on balance is basically inconsequential.

If it were simply a matter of aesthetics...as with the stitching overlap...I would let it go.

But as regards balance, it is my "professional" opinion, as a hands-on, working shoemaker of close to 50 years that the above is misleading and misinformed almost to the point of being damaging to the health of those who buy into it.

"At the devil's booth are all things sold. Each ounce of dross costs its ounce of gold."

--
post #18815 of 19067
Quote:
Originally Posted by ace13x View Post

One point I would bring up is, you can't base the price a company charges for a full resole or full factory refurbish solely on the price of shoe (in your example 1/5).  There is a minimum cost to them on materials and labor.  It may likely COST them the same to resole a $200 shoe as it would a $500 shoe.

That is exactly why I agree with Zapasman that the shoemakers, especially high end ones, are charging too much for a resole, which is 1/3 to the cost of a brand new pair. As you point out, resoling a pair of Edward Greens shouldn't deviate too much from that for a pair of Alfred Sargent, but in fact it is around double (EG charges £205 vs AS's £126)

I don't know how the shoemakers come up with the 1/3 rule but it seems excessive to me.
post #18816 of 19067
We have gone through differences of opinions on sole guards balance etc.
I can only share my professional experience.

I have had many customers ask how the balance will be effected after installing sole guards. I tell them that I've heard those claims before. I tell them if you are that concerned about how significant the balance will be skewed, don't do them. They almost always go ahead and have it done.

On the other hand we probably average 25-30 pair of sole guards per week. I don't recall the last complaint that I got from a customer claiming that adding sole guards threw off the the balance enough that they even noticed.

If anybody experienced that happening please share it with us. This assuming that they were done correctly.
post #18817 of 19067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post

We have gone through differences of opinions on sole guards balance etc.
I can only share my professional experience.

I have had many customers ask how the balance will be effected after installing sole guards. I tell them that I've heard those claims before. I tell them if you are that concerned about how significant the balance will be skewed, don't do them. They almost always go ahead and have it done.

On the other hand we probably average 25-30 pair of sole guards per week. I don't recall the last complaint that I got from a customer claiming that adding sole guards threw off the the balance enough that they even noticed.

If anybody experienced that happening please share it with us. This assuming that they were done correctly.

I may have misunderstood your point. If so, I apologize.

I agree that sole guards won't, by themselves, throw the balance off all that significantly, esp if the material in question is thin (although I would still look carefully at adding a similar amount to the heel height).

But to put it directly over a sole that is worn to the point where it has a hole in it, disrespects the shoe and the foot.

And to recommend doing so is irresponsible...IMO.
post #18818 of 19067
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

I may have misunderstood your point. If so, I apologize.

I'll concede that sole guards won't, by themselves, throw the balance off all that significantly, esp if the material in question is thin. But to put it over a sole that is worn to the point where it has a hole in it, disrespects the shoe and the foot.

And to recommend doing so is irresponsible...IMO.

Apology accepted.

I think you misunderstood something else as well.
In post 18803 I mentioned that sole guards are not intended to be used as a patch.
Further, when a customer comes in for a sole guard to be applied over a week sole (does not to necessarily have to have a hole in it), I refuse to do it. Anybody in this forum that may have shared such an experience with me will attest to my claim.
post #18819 of 19067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post

Apology accepted.

I think you misunderstood something else as well.
In post 18803 I mentioned that sole guards are not intended to be used as a patch.
Further, when a customer comes in for a sole guard to be applied over a week sole (does not to necessarily have to have a hole in it), I refuse to do it. Anybody in this forum that may have shared such an experience with me will attest to my claim.

Fair enough and I do remember you saying that.

But the OP...as I understood it...was asking about doing exactly that (in order to save the cost of a resole) and others chimed in to say it was possible.

That was the heart of the discussion.
post #18820 of 19067
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Fair enough and I do remember you saying that.

But the OP...as I understood it...was asking about doing exactly that (in order to save the cost of a resole) and others chimed in to say it was possible.

That was the heart of the discussion.

O.K. fine by me.....
post #18821 of 19067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowkin View Post


That is exactly why I agree with Zapasman that the shoemakers, especially high end ones, are charging too much for a resole, which is 1/3 to the cost of a brand new pair. As you point out, resoling a pair of Edward Greens shouldn't deviate too much from that for a pair of Alfred Sargent, but in fact it is around double (EG charges £205 vs AS's £126)

I don't know how the shoemakers come up with the 1/3 rule but it seems excessive to me.


Yes thats true.  I suppose my comment should have pointed out that it (pricing as a percentage of MSRP) cuts both ways, and can be excessive in the case of very expensive shoes.  Though in some cases they're labor and material costs will likely be higher than for more mass produced/moderately priced shoes.  

 

In other words, if I owned a bespoke pair of Lobbs, I wouldn't hesitate to pay quite a bit more to factory resole them than my pair of Allen Edmonds.  :satisfied:

post #18822 of 19067
Quote:
Originally Posted by ace13x View Post


Yes thats true.  I suppose my comment should have pointed out that it (pricing as a percentage of MSRP) cuts both ways, and can be excessive in the case of very expensive shoes.  Though in some cases they're labor and material costs will likely be higher than for more mass produced/moderately priced shoes.  

In other words, if I owned a bespoke pair of Lobbs, I wouldn't hesitate to pay quite a bit more to factory resole them than my pair of Allen Edmonds.  satisfied.gif

That may be the case for you.....
I'm hearing more and more that the cost of factory re-crafting (not all but several and, I don't care to mention company names) has gotten beyond what customers are willing to pay.

Gets me thinking, are those companies being short sighted? I ask because there are those customers that will stop buying a specific brand because they can't get their shoes re-crafted by the factory at what they consider a reasonable price.......Are those customers going to competitors, buying less expensive footwear?
post #18823 of 19067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post


That may be the case for you.....
I'm hearing more and more that the cost of factory re-crafting (not all but several and, I don't care to mention company names) has gotten beyond what customers are willing to pay.

Gets me thinking, are those companies being short sighted? I ask because there are those customers that will stop buying a specific brand because they can't get their shoes re-crafted by the factory at what they consider a reasonable price.......Are those customers going to competitors, buying less expensive footwear?


To be clear I don't own bespoke Lobbs.  But If I paid upwards of $4000 for a pair of shoes made to a personal last, the math gets a bit more friendly towards paying more for factory resole.  The AE's, I can wait for a sale and grab for about half way between the cost of AE's Standard Package and full MSRP if that was my desire.

 

As you point out I'm sure there are some makers where the lines get very blurry.

post #18824 of 19067
Quote:
Originally Posted by San780 View Post

C&J is quoting me 160 euros for a resole... I find it extremely expensive indeed.
There's some discussion a couple of months back on the G&G forum about factory re-crafting v local cobbler. Even owners of high-end shoes find the factory prices indignant. Personally I plan to go the factory route for my C&Js (and definitely for EGs and G&Gs). Though I may request oak bark soles for my BG C&J. My 2c worth.
Edited by benf - 9/21/16 at 3:47am
post #18825 of 19067
Quote:
Originally Posted by daamiso View Post

Hello,

what would you say is the right way to polish your shoes.

If u

1. Brush the dirt of
2.condition them
3.creme
4. Wax coat

But the next time you do it

How is the conditioner or the creme gona do the job if the wax coat is on there and they say you shouldent use leather soap that offten.

Thx
The general view amongst owners of G&Gs (I've a few) is that
- brushing is important
- conditioner is to be used sparingly (ie not every time)
- cream is better than wax
- some only use wax to create a mirror shine

Frequency depends on:
- quality and type of leather
- finishing
- amount of wear

Hope this helps.
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