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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 1242

post #18616 of 19073

Welcome back, Patrick!  It's been a long time!

post #18617 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post





In my opinion the best shampoo for suede would be a chelating shampoo that is meant to take mineral deposits out of hair and remove build up of conditioning agents (minerals can discolor the suede and possibly cause abrasion, conditioning agents are cationic and chemically bond to hair). The idea that hair conditioners put moisture back into hair is misinformed. What they mostly do is add negatively charged conditioning agents that bond with the hair and coat it. Oils that are marketed as being in hair conditioners are in there in such low levels they are completely useless. The conditioning effect you are feeling is from the cationic conditioning agents. That said, hair is negatively charged and the conditioning agents are positively charged, this is why they attract each other. Leather fibers are also positively charged, so to put hair conditioner that is positively charged on it would do nothing. Also, non-ionic conditioners are meant to get left behind when mixed with water due to dilution deposition, so what you may experience is a coating of silicone on your leather.

My 2 cents.

 

Great to see you back here - I'm always really grateful to learn from the resources on SF!

 

Sounds like if I ever wash my suede it should be with distilled water :)

 

Any thoughts on the Saphir suede shampoo?

post #18618 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by M635Guy View Post

Any thoughts on the Saphir suede shampoo?

Waste of money
post #18619 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Argentino View Post

Figured this would be the easiest place to get a response. Opened up my Saphir neutral wax today and discovered this:





Was totally dry, but realize the photos make it look more wet than it is. Ran the tin under the faucet with some soap to try and clean it out and it's some stubborn stuff.

Checked my various other tins of different colored wax, and all clean. Is this rust? Mold? Any similar experiences? I store my waxes sealed in the tins, inside of a ziplock bag from which I squeeze out excess air, in a dark drawer.

Same problem I had before... Did you leave any minute amount of water in the tin before you close it?
post #18620 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by letsi View Post

Same problem I had before... Did you leave any minute amount of water in the tin before you close it?

In retrospect, yes. I had a bit of water in the tin for the polishing session. I assume rust or mold would require water either way.
post #18621 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbhan12 View Post



Waste of money

 



The difference between what you just did and PB/DWF do is they provide information to back up an experienced point of view - you just provided a useless opinion.
post #18622 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by ace13x View Post

That should read positively.  Minor correction (mistype), but your other points are valid.  Particularly, that chelation would be most relevant to keeping your suede tip-top.  Everyone frets about water, but is the minerals dissolved (salts) that are the real problem.  Anyone interested in that, should look for products containing EDTA (a commonly used chelator in contemporary detergents).

Still, I've found that unless your suede is hideously dirty, a suede eraser will suffice for cleaning a good deal of the time.  No need to go through the trouble of shampoo.

Ah yes, mistype! Thanks for the correction!
post #18623 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by M635Guy View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbhan12 View Post

Waste of money

The difference between what you just did and PB/DWF do is they provide information to back up an experienced point of view - you just provided a useless opinion.

 

Those were my thoughts. If you'd like me to explicate I'd be happy to do so; I don't appreciate the snark. I have a degree in chemistry and specialized in polymer chemistry, so there's your "experienced point of view," and my opinion is far from useless. Additionally, you could have looked some 15 posts back and seen what I posted and linked. 

 

previous post (Click to show)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbhan12 View Post

Any clear shampoo you use for your hair can be used for suede as well. I followed this blog post by the creator of GlenKaren shoe care products and had fantastic results.

http://oldleathershoe.com/wordpress/?p=1406

Edit:

To clarify, I followed the blog for instructions to make a homemade suede cleaner. Once I have a shampoo-water mixture in a cup, I dip a clean horsehair dauber brush directly into the cup, let some excess fluid drip off, then brush and make a lather into the suede. I follow that up with a wet paper towel to absorb the extra shampoo, though I suppose you could run the shoes under the faucet as well. I then leave the shoes to dry overnight and then give them a healthy brushing once they're dry. Brings back the nap and cleans the suede very well.
 
 

 

But since we're putting our dicks on the table, and it's clear the likes of you won't be satisfied unless I flash some jargon or lingo that'll be understandable to some and certainly confuse others, here goes an explanation. I'm going to go ahead and spoiler this one too for those that will say "ok he's a chemist I trust what he says." 


 

chemical explanation (Click to show)

Saphir suede cleaning shampoo is just that, a shampoo. The "active" ingredient in shampoo that gives shampoo the ability to clean dirt, oil, etc., out of your hair is a surfactant. One of the most common surfactants (cleaning agents, effectively a soap or detergent) used in shampoos is Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, otherwise known as SDS (sodium dodecylsulfate). It has a long carbon chain at one end that is essentially an oil (no charge, very hydrophobic so wants to avoid water), and a chemical bond to salt at the other end (negative charge in this case, very hydrophilic so wants to be in water and avoid oil). At an atomic level, it looks something like a tootsie pop lollipop, with the head being the salt and the stick being the oil. 

 

In water, when there's a "critical concentration" of SDS molecules, the molecules arrange in a structure that's similar to a bubble (called a micelle). Here's a great depiction of what a micelle is. The hydrophobic tail of the SDS molecules arrange in a way (hydrophobic tail) to exclude the water and be surrounded in a oil environment (all oil-tails of SDS molecules). Similarly, the salt head arranges in a way that gives the molecule the most surface area exposure to water. Effectively, this forms a sphere. The hydrophobic forces cause a micelle formation at a critical concentration. This is an extremely important concept to understand, and is the reason why soap is able to clean. To provide a big picture, this is a very similar phenomena that drives the formation of bubbles of any size.

 

 

So, when there's an oil stain in your suede, the stain is caused by (you guessed it) oil. Now when you add a soap/detergent and some water and scrub around to produce a lather (bubbles), you're making micelles that trap the oil inside, and the water-loving salt head on the outside allows the micelle to move freely as a unit. This is why washing off soap leaves a clean surface. 

 

Knowing that, and knowing what makes soap, there's a reason I said in my previous post to use a clear shampoo and dilute it. Similarly, Saphir suede shampoo (yes a shampoo) is a water-soap solution that is also clear. I'll happily make the same thing myself at home and save my $20.

 

fool and his money, as they say. 

 

You're welcome. 

 

edit: added a photo 


Edited by rbhan12 - 8/8/16 at 10:10am
post #18624 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbhan12 View Post

Those were my thoughts. If you'd like me to explicate I'd be happy to do so; I don't appreciate the snark. I have a degree in chemistry and specialized in polymer chemistry, so there's your "experienced point of view," and my opinion is far from useless. Additionally, you could have looked some 15 posts back and seen what I posted and linked. 
previous post (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbhan12 go_quote.gif


Any clear shampoo you use for your hair can be used for suede as well. I followed this blog post by the creator of GlenKaren shoe care products and had fantastic results.

http://oldleathershoe.com/wordpress/?p=1406


Edit:


To clarify, I followed the blog for instructions to make a homemade suede cleaner. Once I have a shampoo-water mixture in a cup, I dip a clean horsehair dauber brush directly into the cup, let some excess fluid drip off, then brush and make a lather into the suede. I follow that up with a wet paper towel to absorb the extra shampoo, though I suppose you could run the shoes under the faucet as well. I then leave the shoes to dry overnight and then give them a healthy brushing once they're dry. Brings back the nap and cleans the suede very well.


 

 



But since we're putting our dicks on the table, and it's clear the likes of you won't be satisfied unless I flash some jargon or lingo that'll be understandable to some and certainly confuse others, here goes an explanation. I'm going to go ahead and spoiler this one too for those that will say "ok he's a chemist I trust what he says." 


  chemical explanation (Click to show)
Saphir suede cleaning shampoo is just that, a shampoo. The "active" ingredient in shampoo that gives shampoo the ability to clean dirt, oil, etc., out of your hair is a surfactant. One of the most common surfactants (cleaning agents, effectively a soap or detergent) used in shampoos is Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, otherwise known as SDS (sodium dodecylsulfate). It has a long carbon chain at one end that is essentially an oil (no charge, very hydrophobic so wants to avoid water), and a chemical bond to salt at the other end (negative charge in this case, very hydrophilic so wants to be in water and avoid oil). At an atomic level, it looks something like a tootsie pop lollipop, with the head being the salt and the stick being the oil. 

In water, when there's a "critical concentration" of SDS molecules, the molecules arrange in a structure that's similar to a bubble (called a micelle). Here's a great depiction of what a micelle is. The hydrophobic tail of the SDS molecules arrange in a way (hydrophobic tail) to exclude the water and be surrounded in a oil environment (all oil-tails of SDS molecules). Similarly, the salt head arranges in a way that gives the molecule the most surface area exposure to water. Effectively, this forms a sphere. The hydrophobic forces cause a micelle formation at a critical concentration. This is an extremely important concept to understand, and is the reason why soap is able to clean. To provide a big picture, this is a very similar phenomena that drives the formation of bubbles of any size.

So, when there's an oil stain in your suede, the stain is caused by (you guessed it) oil. Now when you add a soap/detergent and some water and scrub around to produce a lather (bubbles), you're making micelles that trap the oil inside, and the water-loving salt head on the outside allows the micelle to move freely as a unit. This is why washing off soap leaves a clean surface. 

Knowing that, and knowing what makes soap, there's a reason I said in my previous post to use a clear shampoo and dilute it. Similarly, Saphir suede shampoo (yes a shampoo) is a water-soap solution that is also clear. I'll happily make the same thing myself at home and save my $20.

fool and his money, as they say. 

You're welcome. 

Now THAT is a useful (and extremely interesting) post. Apologies for the snark, but I'm not here enough to recognize many names, and browsing on phones doesn't show a lot of post history. A three-word reply leaves me with nothing, and it is the kind of of thing I hate about internet forums, and I let that rob me of my manners. Thanks for taking the time to write all of that out!
post #18625 of 19073
@rbhan12 I have followed Glen's instructions (J.Crew coconut oíl shampoo mixed with distilled water) for a long time with good results. Do you add any other ingredient to your homemade shampoo fórmula (such as more coconut oil) in order to increase the effects of the conditioner. I do not think that the formula of J.Crew shampoo does contéin much coconut oíl to nurture enough the leather.
post #18626 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapasman View Post

@rbhan12 I have followed Glen's instructions (J.Crew coconut oíl shampoo mixed with distilled water) for a long time with good results. Do you add any other ingredient to your homemade shampoo fórmula (such as more coconut oil) in order to increase the effects of the conditioner. I do not think that the formula of J.Crew shampoo does contéin much coconut oíl to nurture enough the leather.


Nope, I don't add anything to it. It doesn't make sense to me to add oil to a concoction that contains detergent. I was given a bottle of Famaco suede conditioning spray, but I've never used it. I remember reading a long time back that suede doesn't need much conditioner, but rather to be kept clean. 

post #18627 of 19073

does mirror shine make leather dry? the wax does cover the leather and prevent the leather to breathe

post #18628 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbhan12 View Post

Those were my thoughts. If you'd like me to explicate I'd be happy to do so; I don't appreciate the snark. I have a degree in chemistry and specialized in polymer chemistry, so there's your "experienced point of view," and my opinion is far from useless. Additionally, you could have looked some 15 posts back and seen what I posted and linked. 
previous post (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbhan12 go_quote.gif


Any clear shampoo you use for your hair can be used for suede as well. I followed this blog post by the creator of GlenKaren shoe care products and had fantastic results.

http://oldleathershoe.com/wordpress/?p=1406


Edit:


To clarify, I followed the blog for instructions to make a homemade suede cleaner. Once I have a shampoo-water mixture in a cup, I dip a clean horsehair dauber brush directly into the cup, let some excess fluid drip off, then brush and make a lather into the suede. I follow that up with a wet paper towel to absorb the extra shampoo, though I suppose you could run the shoes under the faucet as well. I then leave the shoes to dry overnight and then give them a healthy brushing once they're dry. Brings back the nap and cleans the suede very well.


 

 



But since we're putting our dicks on the table, and it's clear the likes of you won't be satisfied unless I flash some jargon or lingo that'll be understandable to some and certainly confuse others, here goes an explanation. I'm going to go ahead and spoiler this one too for those that will say "ok he's a chemist I trust what he says." 


  chemical explanation (Click to show)
Saphir suede cleaning shampoo is just that, a shampoo. The "active" ingredient in shampoo that gives shampoo the ability to clean dirt, oil, etc., out of your hair is a surfactant. One of the most common surfactants (cleaning agents, effectively a soap or detergent) used in shampoos is Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, otherwise known as SDS (sodium dodecylsulfate). It has a long carbon chain at one end that is essentially an oil (no charge, very hydrophobic so wants to avoid water), and a chemical bond to salt at the other end (negative charge in this case, very hydrophilic so wants to be in water and avoid oil). At an atomic level, it looks something like a tootsie pop lollipop, with the head being the salt and the stick being the oil. 

In water, when there's a "critical concentration" of SDS molecules, the molecules arrange in a structure that's similar to a bubble (called a micelle). Here's a great depiction of what a micelle is. The hydrophobic tail of the SDS molecules arrange in a way (hydrophobic tail) to exclude the water and be surrounded in a oil environment (all oil-tails of SDS molecules). Similarly, the salt head arranges in a way that gives the molecule the most surface area exposure to water. Effectively, this forms a sphere. The hydrophobic forces cause a micelle formation at a critical concentration. This is an extremely important concept to understand, and is the reason why soap is able to clean. To provide a big picture, this is a very similar phenomena that drives the formation of bubbles of any size.




So, when there's an oil stain in your suede, the stain is caused by (you guessed it) oil. Now when you add a soap/detergent and some water and scrub around to produce a lather (bubbles), you're making micelles that trap the oil inside, and the water-loving salt head on the outside allows the micelle to move freely as a unit. This is why washing off soap leaves a clean surface. 

Knowing that, and knowing what makes soap, there's a reason I said in my previous post to use a clear shampoo and dilute it. Similarly, Saphir suede shampoo (yes a shampoo) is a water-soap solution that is also clear. I'll happily make the same thing myself at home and save my $20.

fool and his money, as they say. 

You're welcome. 

edit: added a photo 
To be fair though, you really have no idea what is in Saphir suede shampoo. "Shampoo" is a marketing term that they are using because the concept is familiar. There could be something else going on, but nobody really knows.
post #18629 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post


To be fair though, you really have no idea what is in Saphir suede shampoo. "Shampoo" is a marketing term that they are using because the concept is familiar. There could be something else going on, but nobody really knows.


Sure, though I'll take my chances with what I know. If someone is so kind as to send me a bottle, I'd be happy to do some analytical experiments to find out what's in it. 

post #18630 of 19073
Left my boots over this summer by window. And the right boot must of gotten way more sun than the left. So my right boot is way lighter in color. Any advice to get both boots pretty close. It's cognac calfskin. Thanx
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