or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › **The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.**
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 1121

post #16801 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by M635Guy View Post

I really appreciate your perspective and informative post.

I'm going to ask a really stupid question now: Is saddle soap actually soap? I only glanced in the tin I got weeks ago (and haven't used) and it seems like it looked waxy/oily. It made me think the word "soap" wasn't being used literally...

Are there products meant to look/apply like saddle soap but are pH-corrected?

Lexol-ph is a liquid soap that is ph balanced. As pB said why use a product that is potentially harmful when there's such an obvious and objectively non-harmful alternative?

Every soap I've ever heard of was made from fat and an alkali. Ipso facto, it might be expected to look waxy/oily.
post #16802 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post



I'll donate a lot more than $5 to settle this and a lot more to somebody to shit in a box and send it to Chogall for being an obese asshole.



Acetic acid diluted might be your best bet. Finished leather has a pH between 3 and 5 so HCL might be too strong. I will defer that to you.

 



Okay, now you move on from making unverified claims on certain type of products to now straight personal attacks and real life threats...

Now I am concerned that you go full American Psycho on me based on your Dubiously Honored status and relationships with vendors...

Oh fuck you, seriously. Yes, you're a huge prick. I never threatened your life and I don't know what my status and being friends with certain vendors that don't even sell the products I use has anything to do with anything.
post #16803 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Not specifically to AE (and my comments weren't specific to AE, either) it has been demonstrated over and over again that these big companies make misleading claims end even outright lie.
 

He's indicting soap, and rightfully so. "Saddle" is just an adjective.
If so, then some research at least within this thread (note "search" is part of research) is warranted before you pass judgement.

I'm in my phone in a plane at the moment, but I'm guessing searching this massive thread on "saddle soap" will yield a burger array of results to sort through. A little more specificity would have settled my questions (as they have for the most part at this point).

Thanks again for the insight
post #16804 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbhan12 View Post

Thanks Nick V, I'll send you a PM shortly.

I don't want to use acetic acid because 1) it's a weak acid and 2) it's a buffer. Without going into too much chemical detail, I'm confident that HCl will suffice.

Well, I'm a shoemaker, Jim, not a chemist. But if (as the museum studies I seen suggest) over acidification can be problematic, why use a strong acid on a medium that is already acidic?

The more interesting question is "how will you determine what (and when) is a result?" I think pB has stated that a base will make the fibers of the leather more brittle. Will you have some means to determine that? Since we're looking for a "scientific" result, how can you accept anything less?

Just to remind everyone, the leather is not going to explode...either way.
post #16805 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by M635Guy View Post

I'm in my phone in a plane at the moment, but I'm guessing searching this massive thread on "saddle soap" will yield a burger array of results to sort through. A little more specificity would have settled my questions (as they have for the most part at this point).

Thanks again for the insight

Just for the record...I'm not saying you have to search or even research but what I am saying is that in the absence of specific research or a relatively vast amount of personal, hands-on experience over a fairly wide array of conditions, withholding judgment is the better part of wisdom, don't you think? Or at least a certain restrained deference towards those with that experience.
post #16806 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


Well, I'm a shoemaker, Jim, not a chemist. But if (as the museum studies I seen suggest) over acidification can be problematic, why use a strong acid on a medium that is already acidic?

The more interesting question is "how will you determine what (and when) is a result?" I think pB has stated that a base will make the fibers of the leather more brittle. Will you have some means to determine that? Since we're looking for a "scientific" result, how can you accept anything less?

Just to remind everyone, the leather is not going to explode...either way.

 

An acid being strong or weak is not a literal translation. It indicates how much acid gets dissolved in water. Acetic acid doesn't release much acid at all in water, whereas HCl does. To help clarify, I can just as easily make you a solution of 6.8 pH HCl as I could 6.8 pH acetic acid. To sum it up, I'm pretty confident in my approach. 

 

As far as determining what and when there is a result, there's not much better evidence than visual evidence. There's a fancy microscope I can use that sees objects smaller than .000000001 meters, or about 0.00000004 inches. I can zoom right into the nitty gritty fibers of leather and compare unexposed, water-exposed, acid-exposed, and base-exposed leather. 

post #16807 of 19038

I just dropped pesto on my Park Ave Walnuts. I used a paper towel cleaned it up and used some water, but the stain is still there. I went to a cobbler by my work, they told me to do nothing and just bring it in tomorrow and will try to remove the stain using saddler soap and two other products can't remember the name. I'm hoping they can remove the stain. Anything I should do when I get home?

 

However, people have said saddler soap is a bad idea. I'm thinking of putting corn starch overnight and taking it the cobbler tomorrow.

 

Any thoughts? 

post #16808 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post


This is untrue. I scuff my shoes all of the time, sometimes a dab of reno and a buff brings the mirror shine right back, other times just another thin layer of wax brings the shine back. I honestly don't see the point in stripping the mirror finish off. It isn't like it bends and flexes. Also, with regular buffing the wax naturally get removed slowly.

Patrick seriously my friend? There is two things i can think : either you think mirror shine and spit shine is the same thing or you dont mirror shine the proper way!

where i have said about scuffing ? this is a completely different thing from someone stepping on your toe!! when someone steps on you the wax film shutter's and some parts flake away producing an uneven surface with gaps !! this cant be fixed by just adding renovateur and buff (i was the first used -mentioned this trick and i really know how it works)!! its far faster to clean and redo it than filling the gaps(and having a waved surface as a result)!

 

the trick with renovauteur (and most paste polish or wax containing conditioner) works only on very thin scuffs or on wax treated leather (cordovan etc) cause of their nature (really smooth surface )! if i remember correctly most of your shoes are shell cordovan or wax treated cow hide (from what you have posted here i remember some black shell cordovan  whole cuts and some black label Barker  wax treated etc) so maybe you are miss leaded from their behavior on that trick!!

 

i have mirror shined every kind of leather  (i am trying to mirror shine woven right now hahaha:happy:)  the easiest is shell cordovan and wax treated, second comes vegetable tanned (most of the time smooth surface) ,chrome tanned is the worst especially the full grain 

post #16809 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItSuit View Post
 

I just dropped pesto on my Park Ave Walnuts. I used a paper towel cleaned it up and used some water, but the stain is still there. I went to a cobbler by my work, they told me to do nothing and just bring it in tomorrow and will try to remove the stain using saddler soap and two other products can't remember the name. I'm hoping they can remove the stain. Anything I should do when I get home?

 

However, people have said saddler soap is a bad idea. I'm thinking of putting corn starch overnight and taking it the cobbler tomorrow.

 

Any thoughts? 

Walnut color is really a Paine in the .... according to removing stains !! The stain is 99% from the oils in pesto! some info first before recommending an act!! 

 

the stain is very noticeable or not? big-small? and finally where? (a picture would be the best )

post #16810 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by benhour View Post
 

Walnut color is really a Paine in the .... according to removing stains !! The stain is 99% from the oils in pesto! some info first before recommending an act!! 

 

the stain is very noticeable or not? big-small? and finally where? (a picture would be the best )

 

Here is a picture. 

 

http://imgur.com/a/qMbW9

post #16811 of 19038
Try using a vinegar water mixture and rub a little bit.
post #16812 of 19038
I read earlier in this thread that (some makers) "Despite the fact that if only by virtue of the info that they redact-ingredient lists and so forth...it is intended ...deliberately....to mislead".
That statement itself is what really is misleading.....

I'm friends with one of the owners of Tarrago and Saphir. He told me quite some time ago that the reason why makers do not want their ingredients known is to protect their product from being copied by competitors. It has nothing to do with misleading the public. Not even in their mindset.

When you think of it ask a chef what ingredients he/she uses to make your favorite dish they make for you. Would he/she tell you? I suppose some might but, most won't. It's their creation and they protect it like intellectual property. Do you blame them? Are they being misleading? Keeping you from the truth?

Truth is I see more footwear in the shop damaged not because of the product that a layman used on them but, the product was not used as directed or intended.

To many people read threads like this and others all over the internet and try to get to fancy resulting in damage.

In most cases regarding shoe care simple is best, safest and,most effective.

Just my experience.......
post #16813 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbhan12 View Post

I have a strip of veg tanned leather, cut from the strap of a briefcase that was shortened.

In the interest of science, if you have it available would you mind doing a piece of chrome tanned leather too?
post #16814 of 19038
Whoa seems I missed quite something while being at work ...

@rbhan12: Thank you for offering these experiments. Seems you're the most unbiased and scientifically interested person in this thread right now and everyone else has a history together on SF that was quite detrimental to the actual question at hand: HOW alkaline is saddle soap? (Maybe it even depends on the manufacturer). Once we know that we can actually base assumptions on how bad exposure to that soap is for leather for a specific amount of time based on the experiment you plan with the pieces of leather. I love it already and can't wait for the results!

P.S.: It is quite possible that saddle "soap" is simply called soap because it was used to clean or wash saddles, i.e. it just might be a misnomer. Your pH neutral soap is also called "soap" but isn't alkaline but neutral. And no I'm not trying to say saddle soap isn't soap in that sense. I don't actually know whether it is or not. That's what we all want to figure out.
post #16815 of 19038
Quote:
It has nothing to do with misleading the public. Not even in their mindset.

Go on pull the other one--it's got bells on.
Quote:
When you think of it ask a chef what ingredients he/she uses to make your favorite dish they make for you. Would he/she tell you? I suppose some might but, most won't. It's their creation and they protect it like intellectual property. Do you blame them? Are they being misleading? Keeping you from the truth?

Nonsense! Anyone with access to a mass spectrometer can figure out not only what chemicals are in any given product but in what quantities.

And for many products anyone with a nose can tell the basic ingredients. If they were really serious about their "intellectual property" they'd take out a patent or only sell it by subscription to consumers willing to sign a non-disclosure or, better, a "loyalty" oath.

The interesting thing is that mass spectrometers are seldom accessible by the average consumer--those least likely, IOW, and least well enough funded, to even want to copy such products, despite being potentially the most affected and most likely to avoid a product if the ingredients were known. How convenient.

Wouldn't the manufacturers of Ding-Dongs or Oreos or a thousand other products love to have such a convenient " cover." Intellectual property, indeed! No one is asking for a recipe.

Of course, noses are accessible to most of us and not listing the ingredients is really more about deniability than worries about the recipe getting out.

That said, adding a perfume can mask ingredients such as turpentine and benzene. But think about the word "mask"--it implies deception

It's also odd that some products, at least, don't have this desperate insecurity and obsession with secrecy. I'm reading the label of one right now that says it contains "petroleum distillates," etc.. (Along with a suitable warning not to drink the stuff.)

Petroleum distillates...how many different types of petroleum distillates are there, do you suppose? God preserve us from the spate of home brewers eager to duplicate a product with that revealing recipe!

The only good reason to hide the basic ingredients...no one is asking for an actual recipe...is to conceal and forestall questions by the gullible public about what it is they are actually putting on their shoes.

I know of one individual who, having worked out the basics of most shoe care products, not only went on to produce his own...so dismayed was he about his findings...he also listed each and every ingredient. The product is GlenKaren Care Products.

With all the good reviews that GlenKarn has received here, one has to be nearly gob-smacked at the dearth of copy-cat products. Or at least wondering if all these claims of "protecting intellectual property" aren't just more PR misdirection....that is if one has any claim to critical thinking.

And for what it's worth, my daughter is an executive chef in Portland and the fact is that most chefs will tell you what is in their food. Gladly. They may not give you a recipe with quantities and cooking times but, again, no one is asking for a recipe when it comes to shoe care products.

--
Edited by DWFII - 10/7/15 at 8:30pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Classic Menswear
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › **The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.**