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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 1118

post #16756 of 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbhan12 View Post
 

He's right, soap is basic. This is a fact. 

 

Source: top 10 chem program 

 

How about Saddle Soap?  Have you tested any? How basic is it?  pH 7.1 and pH 14 are both basic and are quite different in terms of strength. 

 

Blood, salt water, hard water, bleach are all basic, but they are quite different...

 

The short time that saddle soap sits on leather surface before rinsed off is not going to alter the pH of your leather shoes to any significant measure.  It took tanneries hours if not days to alter the pH of leather using highly alkaline solutions and highly acidic solutions.  How could anyone seriously believe that a couple minutes of contact with saddle soap is going to have any measurable effect on leather pH?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tharkun View Post

The last time this came up someone offered to grab their pH test strips and check their saddle soap to see how alkaline it really is as it gets worse the more alkaline the soap is. I think we never got that. Whoever offered it, are you still up for it?

 

I did.  Didn't get the chance to do it yet.

 

You are welcomed to try as well if you are curious enough and have saddle soap on hand. I only have the Saphir one.

post #16757 of 19072

I have AE's saddle soap, and haven't used it yet.  It is the recommended treatment by them for the waxed leather McTavish and probably some of their other "rough leather collection."

 

I had second thoughts about it and have since picked up some Bick 4 and Saphir Reno.  Haven't had the shoes long enough to figure out what I'll use, but I'm thinking all of them would be fine.

post #16758 of 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by tharkun View Post

The last time this came up someone offered to grab their pH test strips and check their saddle soap to see how alkaline it really is as it gets worse the more alkaline the soap is. I think we never got that. Whoever offered it, are you still up for it?

It is just castile soap, which has a pH of around 9.
post #16759 of 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post


The short time that saddle soap sits on leather surface before rinsed off is not going to alter the pH of your leather shoes to any significant measure.  It took tanneries hours if not days to alter the pH of leather using highly alkaline solutions and highly acidic solutions.  How could anyone seriously believe that a couple minutes of contact with saddle soap is going to have any measurable effect on leather pH?

It is a slow chemical process, they aren't just going to immediately explode. Furthermore most people are just affecting the topcoat, in that case I might see your point, but crust leather will soak it right in. I just don't understand your insisting on the stuff when there are better options. I said it before and I will say it again, that's pure willful ignorance.

Leather's fibers are amphoteric so they are very sensitive and react differently to varying pH spectrums.

Not for nothing, but the fact that people are mixing the stuff with water, which is also higher than the acidic state leather wants to remain in doesn't help the argument.
post #16760 of 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by M635Guy View Post

I have AE's saddle soap, and haven't used it yet.  It is the recommended treatment by them for the waxed leather McTavish and probably some of their other "rough leather collection."

I had second thoughts about it and have since picked up some Bick 4 and Saphir Reno.  Haven't had the shoes long enough to figure out what I'll use, but I'm thinking all of them would be fine.

Just because a company recommends a product doesn't mean it is good. Most Company's either have an agenda or they don't really know what they are talking about.
post #16761 of 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by benhour View Post

  What about mirror shine and someone step on you?
If you wont strip it down you wont be able to build a new proper one!! Always depends on how you polish your shoes, where you wear them , the type of the leather and the climate of your area ! Btw 99% of the conditioners out there has waxs in them!! 

This is untrue. I scuff my shoes all of the time, sometimes a dab of reno and a buff brings the mirror shine right back, other times just another thin layer of wax brings the shine back. I honestly don't see the point in stripping the mirror finish off. It isn't like it bends and flexes. Also, with regular buffing the wax naturally get removed slowly.
post #16762 of 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

It is a slow chemical process, they aren't just going to immediately explode. Furthermore most people are just affecting the topcoat, in that case I might see your point, but crust leather will soak it right in. I just don't understand your insisting on the stuff when there are better options. I said it before and I will say it again, that's pure willful ignorance.

Leather's fibers are amphoteric so they are very sensitive and react differently to varying pH spectrums.

Not for nothing, but the fact that people are mixing the stuff with water, which is also higher than the acidic state leather wants to remain in doesn't help the argument.

+1
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Edited by DWFII - 10/7/15 at 6:47am
post #16763 of 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post


Just because a company recommends a product doesn't mean it is good. Most Company's either have an agenda or they don't really know what they are talking about.

 

That is a horribly jaded perspective, and not aligned at all with what I've seen from AE.  Their matrix of shoe care recommendations (can't recall where I saw the document now, but it is pretty much all shoes and the various maintenance tasks) shows anything but a casual approach to this topic. 

post #16764 of 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post



It is a slow chemical process, they aren't just going to immediately explode. Furthermore most people are just affecting the topcoat, in that case I might see your point, but crust leather will soak it right in. I just don't understand your insisting on the stuff when there are better options. I said it before and I will say it again, that's pure willful ignorance.



Leather's fibers are amphoteric so they are very sensitive and react differently to varying pH spectrums.



Not for nothing, but the fact that people are mixing the stuff with water, which is also higher than the acidic state leather wants to remain in doesn't help the argument.

 



I am not insisting on the "stuff". I want to know more about the actual properties. Intellectual curiosity.

It's interesting to see the one who called others ignorant is the same one who is making unverified and untested blanket statement using theoretical assumptions.

Experiments and practical experiences be damned by shoe care theories.
post #16765 of 19072
Right, because I have never talked about my own practical experiences. I'm not saying you're ignorant, I am saying you're being willfully ignorant. As another poster said, soap is alkaline. Alkalinity makes leather brittle.

Also, I just don't see the need to soap up shoes anyway. What is the purpose of this? Are people trudging through thick mud?
post #16766 of 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by M635Guy View Post

That is a horribly jaded perspective, and not aligned at all with what I've seen from AE.  Their matrix of shoe care recommendations (can't recall where I saw the document now, but it is pretty much all shoes and the various maintenance tasks) shows anything but a casual approach to this topic. 

You're correct, but bad experiences have only led to this questioning attitude towards shoe care. Especially when makers won't tell you what is in products and furthermore why certain ingredients are used over others and the benefits they assert you get from them.
post #16767 of 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Right, because I have never talked about my own practical experiences. I'm not saying you're ignorant, I am saying you're being willfully ignorant. As another poster said, soap is alkaline. Alkalinity makes leather brittle.

 



You sound a lot more like a conspiracy theorist than a credible source of information at this point. If you've got practical experience you should relay that.

But you're saying all saddle soap is bad, right? That Saphir and AE make and recommend products that are ultimately damaging in the intended use - is that what you're saying?
post #16768 of 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post


You're correct, but bad experiences have only led to this questioning attitude towards shoe care. Especially when makers won't tell you what is in products and furthermore why certain ingredients are used over others and the benefits they assert you get from them.

 

Well, I agree with your second point more than the first.  I get why certain things are considered proprietary.  Any good company should communicate the "Why" behind their products.

post #16769 of 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Right, because I have never talked about my own practical experiences. I'm not saying you're ignorant, I am saying you're being willfully ignorant. As another poster said, soap is alkaline. Alkalinity makes leather brittle.



Also, I just don't see the need to soap up shoes anyway. What is the purpose of this? Are people trudging through thick mud?

 



Sure, soap is alkaline. But that's soap. Saddle soap isn't your Dove or Dr Bronner. Its like compare freshly squeezed lemon juice vs. sprite or snapples. Not exactly the same thing, but I am sure its difficult for some to distinguish the two.

And yes, it may be a great surprise to many, but there are people actually wearing their shoes and boots. I wore my boots through mud/soil more than a few times...
post #16770 of 19072

It seems equivalent to saying all shaving soaps are the same - the variety and quality variance is huge.  Mine has a lot of lanolin in it, allows me to shave close and makes my face feel very good.  I've tried some that have terrible lubricity and dry my face out after one use.

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