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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 1080

post #16186 of 19073

Very good articles, indeed.

 

Vinegar, water, good unexpensive products...the shoe care cosmetic industrie is now looking after you.

 

You better watch out!!.

:tinfoil:

post #16187 of 19073
Like I said, it is product neutral.
post #16188 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

I think I can say it was me who started the downfall of Renovateur and caused a shitstorm on here. Do a search, you'll see.

I used it regularly on a rotation of shoes years ago and they all ended up cracked and in the garbage. My older shoes that only got Lexol treatments years before Reno was ever available lasted far longer and took far more abuse. In general you just have to use your own judgement and a bit of logic to tell what a product is doing. Reno might have conditioning oils it in, but it is largely a beeswax based product. When you buff it, it shines. I just feel it is more of a polish than anything else. It doesn't sink into the leather and penetrate the finish like a conditioner should. It sits on top and buffs shiny. If it was penetrating it would disrupt the finish to a degree. Also, too much wax and oil on shoes attracts dirt and dust which act like sandpaper in the creases. Furthermore if you are stripping your shoes and adding straight oils to your shoes over saturating the fibers the fibers turn into a wet rag. Think of how easy cardboard is to rip when wet. Same thing for leather. I've had far better results using lighter conditioners less frequently that actually sink into the leather. This is why I have developed a preference for emulsified conditioners. Because of the water content it is hard to over apply them because the water will fill the pores of the leather along with the oils and the water will evaporate out leaving behind the oil. I also have developed somewhat of a preference for synthetics like Lexol, or engineered products like Leather Doctor. Lexol is synthetic and it won't oxidize and cause problems, Leather Doctor's products evaporate out where oxidation isn't an issue either.

Most of these fancy products are for people to use and see some sort of immediate result. Wow! Look how shiny these are that must mean they are clean and moisturized! No, it doesn't, it means you shined them with beeswax.

This isn't to say that there aren't applications for these products. If you maintain a mirror shine on the toe and heels of your shoes a dab of reno literally the third of a size of a pea swirled on the mirror shined area and buffed will bring back an excellent shine in between full polishing sessions. Also, Saphir polish in general I find to be very good. I think they impart the nicest pigmentation out of what I have used.

I know it is shameless self promotion, but No Man Walks Alone is an affiliate and I love them so I guess it is ok... I think some newbies to shoe care should read my series of posts at the No Man Walks Alone tumblr page. The good thing about them is I just write logical things based on my experience and it is totally product neutral so using the logic you can make up your mind on what products you would like to use. Links here:

http://nomanwalksalone.tumblr.com/post/121689628761/the-basics-of-leather-shoe-care-by-patrick-booth-i
http://nomanwalksalone.tumblr.com/post/122282765206/how-leather-is-made-and-why-it-is-important-by
http://nomanwalksalone.tumblr.com/post/123043694126/bad-things-happen-to-good-shoes-part-1-by
http://nomanwalksalone.tumblr.com/post/123474684001/bad-things-happen-to-good-shoes-part-2-by

All I know is, I'm glad I'm out of the shoe care product business.

I do think some of the issues involved over use from the customer side, but mostly I think Saphir has become a bit of a victim of over selling by certain online retailers.

I certainly couldn't control them........nobody wanted to listen to me re: the technical side.
post #16189 of 19073
Part of the problem is Saphir's unwillingness to talk about their products openly and offer anything technical. Even their own website has incorrect information on their products and emailing them is useless.
post #16190 of 19073

I am glad someone here with such a well formed opinion and large experience about the issue has contributed the way you have done it.  

 

I have done my own research throughout the years and I coulnt agree more.

 

Well done and thanks for sharing all your knowledge (when needed I will test the vinegar pocion).

 

:fistbump:

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Like I said, it is product neutral.
post #16191 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Part of the problem is Saphir's unwillingness to talk about their products openly and offer anything technical. Even their own website has incorrect information on their products and emailing them is useless.

Actually, I put every MSDS, every usage guide....told accounts what they could and couldn't ship, how to do all of the documents, everything.....into dropbox so they could access and share. Country distributors are responsible to manage that info. Very few retailers listened.....Sid Mashburn, Leffot & A Shine and Co. come to mind as serious operators, but some of the internet sellers were difficult to teach.

As far as formulas, or even a master list of ingredients past the prime ones (let alone process), nobody is going to offer up that. I didn't even know exactly. As part of the SSIA for a few years, I can tell you not one single distributor/executive/salesman/employee knows exactly what's in products. The entire industry is run by, like, 6 guys. Like the alligator business......
post #16192 of 19073
I think they should at least offer up "how to" articles and such. Even if they don't release every ingredient, what to use when is very helpful. Also, why is their product superior to others other than they say so?

I was seeing on some online retailers pictures of oil smears on a piece of paper. Look at how renovateur made a bigger oil stain on this piece of paper than our competitors! Ok, but leather isn't a piece of paper, why is a larger oil stain beneficial? It just got to the point where it was silly. Especially for the 3000 steps to keep your shoes in tip top shape.
post #16193 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIDER View Post


All I know is, I'm glad I'm out of the shoe care product business.

I do think some of the issues involved over use from the customer side, but mostly I think Saphir has become a bit of a victim of over selling by certain online retailers.

I certainly couldn't control them........nobody wanted to listen to me re: the technical side.

 

Sorry to hear that. You are a good distributor. :(

post #16194 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

I think they should at least offer up "how to" articles and such. Even if they don't release every ingredient, what to use when is very helpful. Also, why is their product superior to others other than they say so?

I was seeing on some online retailers pictures of oil smears on a piece of paper. Look at how renovateur made a bigger oil stain on this piece of paper than our competitors! Ok, but leather isn't a piece of paper, why is a larger oil stain beneficial? It just got to the point where it was silly. Especially for the 3000 steps to keep your shoes in tip top shape.

We did get them - and made them available to every retailer in both dropbox as well as keys to our FTP servers thing. Tarrago was much more in depth than Avel, but there were always guides available - that we asked accounts to post on their sites or at least be aware of to answer questions - but I don't think it went far.

Example:
FT1123RENOVATEURPOMMADIERMDOGB.pdf 44k .pdf file

Comparative_Tests_Leather_Refresh.pdf 429k .pdf file

Nanotechnology_report.pdf 65k .pdf file
post #16195 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

I think they should at least offer up "how to" articles and such. Even if they don't release every ingredient, what to use when is very helpful. Also, why is their product superior to others other than they say so?

I was seeing on some online retailers pictures of oil smears on a piece of paper. Look at how renovateur made a bigger oil stain on this piece of paper than our competitors! Ok, but leather isn't a piece of paper, why is a larger oil stain beneficial? It just got to the point where it was silly. Especially for the 3000 steps to keep your shoes in tip top shape.

 

They do.

 

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0060/5272/files/GUIDE_MEDAILLE_DOR_GB.pdf?2382

post #16196 of 19073

First I am seeing of this.
post #16197 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post


First I am seeing of this.

 

Published in 2013 AFAIK.  Not widely distributed as most online resellers of Saphir would much rather sing their own tunes on the products, for inbound marketing/search engine optimization.

post #16198 of 19073

BTW @patrickBOOTH, I like your NMWA articles. 

 

But please add safety warning disclosures when recommending deglazers/dye preparers/etc.  Those are toxic solutions that should only be used in *well ventilated* areas, with *gloves* and no skin contact.

post #16199 of 19073
I've never used gloves with any of it. Certainly not in well ventilated areas and I'm the most well adjusted, sane, 30 year old in America.

Those products have appropriate warnings on the bottles.
post #16200 of 19073

I wear masks and latex gloves when using deglazers, dye preparers, and leather dyes.

 

I do not like the fume of acetone as well.

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