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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 1050

post #15736 of 19067
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

That's precisely the point...the process is unrelated to the cause.The patterns are unrelated to the cause. Go back and read my posts...a dart is used to remove excess. It doesn't create it.

Patterns are not process and only speak to process incidentally.

Ipso facto...if excess is evident despite a dart being used ...the cause must be something other than the dart or the patterns.

Sooo...sending out photos of the counter pattern speaks to exactly what in this context?

I didn't say a thing about a remedy.

edited for punctuation and clarity

A tailor would disagree with you here. Darts create fullness about the point of termination. That's why you have bust darts for women and the like. If you put a slit in a piece of paper and then overlap the two sides you just made the slit, what happens? You get a bulge at the point of termination. This bulge can be manipulated with ironwork, steam and such to make it how you want it, but the physics of the bulge works for leather as it does cloth. It looks like just sloppy working of the fullness, or perhaps it was darted too much to the point where you can't do anything about the fullness created.
post #15737 of 19067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berners15 View Post


I think it is because the people on here are so opinionated and affluent; guys just because you're rich, it doesn't make you right. Most of the advice is opinionated and often anecdotal.
I am relatively badly off financially, but have liked high quality shoes since I was a child, go figure the reasons because I am unsure.
As I haven't had the funds to indulge on a wardrobe full of exotic shoes I have had to look after them, and before the advent of easy access to the interweb, I developed a shoe care regime by asking friends and realatives what to do and what to use.
I learned to spit and polish from my father who spent time in the armed forces and Robert De Niro in Taxi Driver (I still have an M-65 field jacket in my wardrobe - America's greatest and probably only worth while gift to the fashion world lol)
The point is I have shoes that are getting on for 20yrs old ie an old pair of Church's Diplomat that have never seen conditioner in their life. Are they cracked? Nope. Do they still look nice? Yep.
My regime for them is Meltonian cream in a close colour match and Kiwi for the toe caps and heels - seeems to have worked, lost count how many times they've been resoled, that was in the good old days when Church's made shoes properly-ish.
Laterly I use Saphir and their conditioner, cream and wax for my more exotic shoes - seems to work but will it make them last any longer, well I kind of doubt it.
Back to Mr De Niro, well that was the first time I saw somebody ignite their polish to make it liquid, my father explained it also burns off the spirit which apparently helps. Also at that point I started to use water rather than spit. I was quite a little punk rocker in the 70's and there have been many pairs of Airwair boots that have pogo'd the night away with their mirror shine that would have held their head up high on a parade ground (yep daily maintenance, as you can imagine, was essential) - strangely none of them cracked either.
After the Punk phase came David Bowie's Lets Dance look and I went all Italian suits and English shoes and that's where my heart still lies I suppose.
I dislike conventional English tailoring (God bless Armani for the 80's) and God bless Gaziano and Girling for taking the stuffed shirt Edward Green style (with the exception of the 888 last on an Oxford) and doing the same thing to it ie bring it kicking and screaming into the modern world and adding style and elegance to a formal shoe whilst retaining its original roots. Co-incidentally didn't Mr Gaziano design the 888 last?
However at the point I started wearing the toe cap Oxford I stopped doing mirror shines. IMHO it just looks wrong. Toecaps and heels slightly shinier than the rest of the shoe, definately yes. Natural patina on leather as a reult of years of wear and loving care as opposed to an advert on, how plasticky you can make toe caps look by putting on a parade ground shine, is something I prefer.
So why don't the people on here agree. Because there is more than one way to achieve the desired end look. Opinions as to what that look shoud be vary. Then there is the anecdotal 'evidence' spouted by those that have never had to make shoes last decades that are worn on a regular basis. Then there are the myths spread by the product manufacturers.
On the plus side, properly polishing a pair of old loved shoes on a wet and windy Sunday evening is mildly therapeutic and I enjoy reading this little advice column to fill in the gaps in my knowledge that I apparently have even though I have been partaking in the shoe shine ritual for 50 years.
Bless you all XXXX

200_s.gif
post #15738 of 19067
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

A tailor would disagree with you here. Darts create fullness about the point of termination. That's why you have bust darts for women and the like. If you put a slit in a piece of paper and then overlap the two sides you just made the slit, what happens? You get a bulge at the point of termination. This bulge can be manipulated with ironwork, steam and such to make it how you want it, but the physics of the bulge works for leather as it does cloth. It looks like just sloppy working of the fullness, or perhaps it was darted too much to the point where you can't do anything about the fullness created.

I'm a shoemaker Jim, not a tailor.

That said, i wonder how a garment would fit in the bust without the dart?

I can assure you that the dart in the counter pattern...however you define its ultimate purpose... is there to remove excess, that is not only unneeded but which makes a clean draft a bit more difficult..
post #15739 of 19067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berners15 View Post
 


I think it is because the people on here are so opinionated and affluent; guys just because you're rich, it doesn't make you right. Most of the advice is opinionated and often anecdotal.

I am relatively badly off financially, but have liked high quality shoes since I was a child, go figure the reasons because I am unsure.

As I haven't had the funds to indulge on a wardrobe full of exotic shoes I have had to look after them, and before the advent of easy access to the interweb, I developed a shoe care regime by asking friends and realatives what to do and what to use.

I learned to spit and polish from my father who spent time in the armed forces and Robert De Niro in Taxi Driver (I still have an M-65 field jacket in my wardrobe - America's greatest and probably only worth while gift to the fashion world lol)

The point is I have shoes that are getting on for 20yrs old ie an old pair of Church's Diplomat that have never seen conditioner in their life. Are they cracked? Nope. Do they still look nice? Yep.

My regime for them is Meltonian cream in a close colour match and Kiwi for the toe caps and heels - seeems to have worked, lost count how many times they've been resoled, that was in the good old days when Church's made shoes properly-ish.

Laterly I use Saphir and their conditioner, cream and wax for my more exotic shoes - seems to work but will it make them last any longer, well I kind of doubt it.

Back to Mr De Niro, well that was the first time I saw somebody ignite their polish to make it liquid, my father explained it also burns off the spirit which apparently helps. Also at that point I started to use water rather than spit. I was quite a little punk rocker in the 70's and there have been many pairs of Airwair boots that have pogo'd the night away with their mirror shine that would have held their head up high on a parade ground (yep daily maintenance, as you can imagine, was essential) - strangely none of them cracked either.

After the Punk phase came David Bowie's Lets Dance look and I went all Italian suits and English shoes and that's where my heart still lies I suppose.

I dislike conventional English tailoring (God bless Armani for the 80's) and God bless Gaziano and Girling for taking the stuffed shirt Edward Green style (with the exception of the 888 last on an Oxford) and doing the same thing to it ie bring it kicking and screaming into the modern world and adding style and elegance to a formal shoe whilst retaining its original roots. Co-incidentally didn't Mr Gaziano design the 888 last?

However at the point I started wearing the toe cap Oxford I stopped doing mirror shines. IMHO it just looks wrong. Toecaps and heels slightly shinier than the rest of the shoe, definately yes. Natural patina on leather as a reult of years of wear and loving care as opposed to an advert on, how plasticky you can make toe caps look by putting on a parade ground shine, is something I prefer.

So why don't the people on here agree. Because there is more than one way to achieve the desired end look. Opinions as to what that look shoud be vary. Then there is the anecdotal 'evidence' spouted by those that have never had to make shoes last decades that are worn on a regular basis. Then there are the myths spread by the product manufacturers.

On the plus side, properly polishing a pair of old loved shoes on a wet and windy Sunday evening is mildly therapeutic and I enjoy reading this little advice column to fill in the gaps in my knowledge that I apparently have even though I have been partaking in the shoe shine ritual for 50 years.

Bless you all XXXX

 

I know it is difficult to generalise from a sample of one, but I am certainly not affluent nor particularly opinionated. My shoes are mostly Loake 1880s and I have two pairs of Trickers. I am never going to be in a position to buy better than this and feel grateful that I can afford these. As for the advice being opinionated and anecdotal, well of course it is!  What did you expect, a series of Randomised Controlled Trials?  This thread is, though, a place where many experts share their experience and skill. I, for one, appreciate that and find it helpful.  Best wishes, Munky :happy:


Edited by Munky - 6/22/15 at 7:42am
post #15740 of 19067
I'm not a rich man, but I've got tons of opinions based on trial and error. If you look carefully I generally endorse products on the cheaper end of the spectrum and not so much the hyped stuff. Also, "affluent" is all relative.
post #15741 of 19067

I am just a peasant that shine my own shoes, iron my own shirt, and sew my own loose shirt buttons.  And I learned a great deal and tricks from the experts such as @DWFII, @Nick V., @RIDER over the years.

 

I don't recommend without firsthand experience.

post #15742 of 19067
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

I'm not a rich man, but I've got tons of opinions based on trial and error. If you look carefully I generally endorse products on the cheaper end of the spectrum and not so much the hyped stuff. Also, "affluent" is all relative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

I am just a peasant that shine my own shoes, iron my own shirt, and sew my own loose shirt buttons.  And I learned a great deal and tricks from the experts such as @DWFII
, @Nick V.
, @RIDER
over the years.

I don't recommend without firsthand experience.

Well, thanks for the kind words....but I suspect it's just common sense.

In fact I was thinking about this the other day and all the folks who have taken me to task for advocating for Handwelted work. Who have declaimed their indifference to the inherent weaknesses of GYW. And the relatively high price of cachet brand factory shoes.

Thing is...if you're one of those people....it probably doesn't make any difference what product you use. I'm sure shoes treated with damn near anything from Saphir to goat piss will last a fella a lifetime...or at least until he's lost interest.
post #15743 of 19067
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post
 

Leather's quality certainly play a role, but not so much as "quality", but in different terms of criteria, rather. If the leather is too soft, it won't hold a proper shine, and is best left for natural finish with soft creams. 

 

Can you try get Saphir's waxes instead of Glen's? If Glen's paste wax isn't readily available then resorting to Saphir sounds just about right.

I should be able to get Saphir quite easily. Right now I don't intend on buying another tin of wax, but when I do I will definitely post my experience with Saphir here.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post


Kiwi works great for spit shine. Don't need to pay up 15-20 including shipping for a pair of ~100 shoes.

Lower price range shoes usually have more layers of finishes and will be easier to shine.


Interesting that Kiwi is so inexpensive and yet,apparently, very effective. Might have a look into that as well!

 

Thank you very much for your kind answers. I appreciate your wisdom :thumbs-up:

post #15744 of 19067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Staffer18283 View Post
 


If someone can go through all the 1049 pages of this thread and find an answer to the question - which shoe condititioner to use and how often, and get at least two other members to agree with that answer, he will be a better man than I. :hide:


If you remember I was replying to this, I was not having a random pop at the affluent.

The crux was - no conditioner, Meltonian and Kiwi = No cracks, well cared for, long lasting shoes.

According to many on here this cannot be achieved except with the aid of wax from the rarest of bees, living on the remotest islands, blessed by holy men and shaman, only sold in the most exclusive shops and commanding a premium to match.

Simplified I stand by what I said - simplified - poppy cock.

Now, if you so please, I shall get off my soap box and return to my much loved kebab, please and thank you mmmmmwwwwwwaaaaahh

post #15745 of 19067

Hi guys,

 

What color shoe crème polish would you recommend for the below shoes? I think I'd generally like to darken them a tiny bit and intensify the "antigue" nature of the finish  (at least I've seen pictures on the net where they look slightly darker and like the look).  I'm not wedded to a particular brand of polish, but prefer to purchase off of amazon since I have a credit there. 

 

Processed By eBay with ImageMagick, z1.1.0. ||B2

 

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Dylanh99

 

"He not busy being born is busy dying."  - Bob Dylan

post #15746 of 19067
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post


200_s.gif

The expression is priceless.

post #15747 of 19067
Quote:
Originally Posted by dylanh99 View Post
 

Hi guys,

 

What color shoe crème polish would you recommend for the below shoes? I think I'd generally like to darken them a tiny bit and intensify the "antigue" nature of the finish  (at least I've seen pictures on the net where they look slightly darker and like the look).  I'm not wedded to a particular brand of polish, but prefer to purchase off of amazon since I have a credit there. 

 

Processed By eBay with ImageMagick, z1.1.0. ||B2

 

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Dylanh99

 

"He not busy being born is busy dying."  - Bob Dylan

Put some black on the counters, stitching, and flexing areas, and keep doing that for a while. Once the area darken, lighten the color up over time. You'll achieve the faux-antiquing. 

post #15748 of 19067

Better use dark brown than black...

 

Besides, you can use dark brown cream to color your sole edges as well...

post #15749 of 19067
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post
 

Better use dark brown than black...

 

Besides, you can use dark brown cream to color your sole edges as well...

For another time I actually agree.

post #15750 of 19067

Wont dark brown or black make the colour muddy/grubby looking. I would have said strip back old polish build up and then go for a darker tan cream all over - then perhaps a dark brown wax on toes and heels after the base tan gets a bit less anaemic - ho hum, what do I know?

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