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post #15346 of 19059
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post


1. You've asked why it's dyed both side. I've told you it's most likely drum dyed.

2. You don't seem to have much experience with higher quality shoes and are extrapolating your [mass production] shoes experiences to interpret your expectation for higher quality shoes. Your experience with 30-50 years old [mass produced] [military surplus] combat boots simply does not apply to shooting boots made by high end RTW makers or bespoke.

2. Invalid point. I don't use just combat boots as an example. I only used them for examples regarding how ugly the chrome blue would look as the surface is worn through and discoloration occurs. I don't extrapolating my experience of one subject and interpret it on the other one. I almost bought shoes from Carmina and many others, until it winds me disappointed of what materials they were using or what construction method they underwent even for the amount of money charged. It all comes down to a point where I concluded to myself that I'd rather save up some times to gasp for air and then go straight to a bespoke shoemaker, which saves me times, efforts, and even decisions. Like I said, it isn't like I always have time to go around, collect pictures and quotes to satisfy you.

post #15347 of 19059
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post


Are you going to ask for veg tanned linings and sock linings as well? While you are at it, why not specify the type of leather dyes used to stain the upper and sole edges?

I don't have to ask for those twos. Any good shoemakers, like that of DW, should know too well that only veg tanned skins are usable for linings. 

 

As of dyes, it's stupid to ask for the type of dyes. If that is the case, the customer should arm himself with the knowledge of the shoemaker, talk to him over a period of time, getting to know the region (US vs. Europe or anywhere else), find out about local production of leather work products, and all in all, get educated. One can only ask for specific coloration or patina.

 

Sole edges can be left natural, so, unless the guy is a lazy bastard or a finicky douche bag, it's another story then. Self-finishing is a fun thing to do, if one wanted to. 

post #15348 of 19059
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post

2. Invalid point. I don't use just combat boots as an example. I only used them for examples regarding how ugly the chrome blue would look as the surface is worn through and discoloration occurs. I don't extrapolating my experience of one subject and interpret it on the other one. I almost bought shoes from Carmina and many others, until it winds me disappointed of what materials they were using or what construction method they underwent even for the amount of money charged. It all comes down to a point where I concluded to myself that I'd rather save up some times to gasp for air and then go straight to a bespoke shoemaker, which saves me times, efforts, and even decisions. Like I said, it isn't like I always have time to go around, collect pictures and quotes to satisfy you.

Hi. I gave you many examples of bespoke shoes with chrome tanned leather. I have bespoken a few pairs as well.

Yet you still refuse to acknowledge that chrome tanned leather doesn't have to have wet blue core like those low end vintage combat boots you've cited.

Please acknowledge that chrom tanned leather can age beautifully as well. Oh, and they are more supple vs veg tanned too.
post #15349 of 19059
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post

I don't have to ask for those twos. Any good shoemakers, like that of DW, should know too well that only veg tanned skins are usable for linings. 

As of dyes, it's stupid to ask for the type of dyes. If that is the case, the customer should arm himself with the knowledge of the shoemaker, talk to him over a period of time, getting to know the region (US vs. Europe or anywhere else), find out about local production of leather work products, and all in all, get educated. One can only ask for specific coloration or patina.

Sole edges can be left natural, so, unless the guy is a lazy bastard or a finicky douche bag, it's another story then. Self-finishing is a fun thing to do, if one wanted to. 

Shoemakers buy lining leather.

There's quite a big difference between water based dyes, alcohol based dyes, oil based dyes, or acrylic based coatings.

Oh, and self finished with without burnishing, pressing, waxing, etc? Very different treatments as well.
post #15350 of 19059
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post


Hi. I gave you many examples of bespoke shoes with chrome tanned leather. I have bespoken a few pairs as well.

Yet you still refuse to acknowledge that chrome tanned leather doesn't have to have wet blue core like those low end vintage combat boots you've cited.

Please acknowledge that chrom tanned leather can age beautifully as well. Oh, and they are more supple vs veg tanned too.

Sorry. Don't see any of those beautiful aging happening. Putting them on a window where the sun shines on them to get them fading isn't what I'd say productive. Only some of them feel supple enough - AE's chromed calf is rough as raw stone once the top coat is removed. It does not just limit to combat boots. 

post #15351 of 19059
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post


Shoemakers buy lining leather.

There's quite a big difference between water based dyes, alcohol based dyes, oil based dyes, or acrylic based coatings.

Oh, and self finished with without burnishing, pressing, waxing, etc? Very different treatments as well.

Why the fuck do I care about what kind of solvent the dye is based on? And why the hell would any good, or reputable, shoemaker use acrylic coatings?

 

Self finishing, I said, was to either dye or polish the finished natural heel and sole edge, not that the essential stages, burnishing, pressing, and waxing, are left up to the customer(s) to do themselves. 

post #15352 of 19059
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post

Sorry. Don't see any of those beautiful aging happening. Putting them on a window where the sun shines on them to get them fading isn't what I'd say productive. Only some of them feel supple enough - AE's chromed calf is rough as raw stone once the top coat is removed. It does not just limit to combat boots. 

Right. Because you don't believe in oxidation.

And did you just compare AE to high end?
post #15353 of 19059
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post


Right. Because you don't believe in oxidation.

And did you just compare AE to high end?

Not exactly. In regards to AE and high end, it's gonna be long and funny. Scratch it if you wish. Still, not that chromed calfskins are all smooth and luxurious the way you have wet dreams over.

 

Not that I don't believe in oxidation, and you're going off topic and offensive there. Read my posts before you argue, or even attempt to attack me. I don't like having to remind you to do extra reading comprehensions. 

post #15354 of 19059
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post

Why the fuck do I care about what kind of solvent the dye is based on? And why the hell would any good, or reputable, shoemaker use acrylic coatings?

Self finishing, I said, was to either dye or polish the finished natural heel and sole edge, not that the essential stages, burnishing, pressing, and waxing, are left up to the customer(s) to do themselves. 
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post

Why the fuck do I care about what kind of solvent the dye is based on? And why the hell would any good, or reputable, shoemaker use acrylic coatings?

Self finishing, I said, was to either dye or polish the finished natural heel and sole edge, not that the essential stages, burnishing, pressing, and waxing, are left up to the customer(s) to do themselves. 

I don't know. You seems to be the one who wants to regularly condition leather with oil or claiming alcohol drying leather out, ain't me.

Acrylic finish is legit as it actually seals and sets the color. Pretty common practice for leather workers.
post #15355 of 19059
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post

Not exactly. In regards to AE and high end, it's gonna be long and funny. Scratch it if you wish. Still, not that chromed calfskins are all smooth and luxurious the way you have wet dreams over.

Not that I don't believe in oxidation, and you're going off topic and offensive there. Read my posts before you argue, or even attempt to attack me. I don't like having to remind you to do extra reading comprehensions. 

I have acknowledged your claims because it's a subset of what I've observed and described.

Somehow you have difficulties seeing beyond the subpar. Go observe some top grade box calf like Birkins or veg retan leathers at different makers.
post #15356 of 19059
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post



I don't know. You seems to be the one who wants to regularly condition leather with oil or claiming alcohol drying leather out, ain't me.

Acrylic finish is legit as it actually seals and sets the color. Pretty common practice for leather workers.

If you want, keep it to yourself. Otherwise, acrylic finish is bullshit and it degrades the leather way under the intended value.

Did I actually say that I don't believe in oxidation? So just because I use oil and says alcohol can dry leather, I don't believe in oxidation? Jeeze Louis, chogall, you're way worse than when you said petroleum is acidic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post


I have acknowledged your claims because it's a subset of what I've observed and described.

Somehow you have difficulties seeing beyond the subpar. Go observe some top grade box calf like Birkins or veg retan leathers at different makers.

Point half-taken. 

post #15357 of 19059
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post


Acrylic finish is legit as it actually seals and sets the color. Pretty common practice for leather workers.

It can be as simple as the opaque topcoat that most...esp. black...chrome tans employ, or as subtle as a transparent "wax" over the top of an aniline dyed calf.

I suspect that most of the tanning industry...when it comes to finished uppers...uses one form of acrylic or another..
post #15358 of 19059
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


It can be as simple as the opaque topcoat that most...esp. black...chrome tans employ, or as subtle as a transparent "wax" over the top of an aniline dyed calf.

I suspect that most of the tanning industry...when it comes to finished uppers...uses one form of acrylic or another..

Acrylic coating sucks. I much prefer a natural wax coating. Unless the leather is CG, there are no reasons to coat it with that hideous plastic material.

 

It comes under the request of the maker or company, DW, like how Alden has got glossy coated shell whilst AE got the dull shell, and folks like you and St. Crispins' has got to polish their shells. It's all under requirements and specific criteria. 

post #15359 of 19059
"Self-finishing is a fun thing to do, if one wanted to. "


post #15360 of 19059
Quote:
Originally Posted by westie187 View Post

"Self-finishing is a fun thing to do, if one wanted to. "


:fonz:

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