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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 965

post #14461 of 19065
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonotovsOpera View Post
 

@DWFII, much agreed. Hostility is completely unnecessary. However, if you are going to discuss scientific tenets, I think accuracy in language is extremely important.

 

@traverscao, on your points: I don't think all manufacturers or all designers wanted to be very careful about the cleaning products they use, create, or recommend. There are many that still sell saddle soap as a cleaner, even if it is a terrible product. I also understand what you meant by "buffer zone", but that term is simply not used to refer to what you're referring it to and could be confusing to people reading this thread. I certainly had no idea what you were referring to.

 

On the subject, I'd actually agree with @patrickBOOTH, that you want a product that is slightly acidic, not a neutral product. Even pH balanced (neutral) soaps are drying to the skin. They are also probably not the best choice for leather, but they are certainly better than something alkaline.

Thanks for getting it, Monotovs. Feel free to converse as per needed. 

post #14462 of 19065
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonotovsOpera View Post

@DWFII
, much agreed. Hostility is completely unnecessary. However, if you are going to discuss scientific tenets, I think accuracy in language is extremely important.


No argument there. I personally think speaking...and particularly writing...is something that should always be approached seriously and with as much focus and clarity of mind as can be brought to bear.

The one thing I feel a pretty deep aversion to is "ganging up" on someone. It's the story of the ugly ducking...except that in the real world the ugly duckling usually gets pecked to death.

The truth is that the most effective posters...English speakers or not...find that a forum such as this one provides them a magnificent opportunity to hone their communications skills. To learn to speak English...or more to the point...to learn to write it.

Those that don't take that opportunity miss out.

Even if you're a native English speaker, if you're misspelling words from indifference, making no attempt to properly punctuate sentences or capitalize words when needed (like at the beginning of a sentence), using slang, or failing to organize your thoughts...you're not communicating as well as you could.

And IMO it is a little disrespectful as well.

That said, no one is ...or should be...spell checking here. The gap between human beings is too large...both parties have to reach in the other's direction.
post #14463 of 19065
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post
 

Critical with politeness, please. I don't take no more shit storms. 

 

Onwards to the explanation that you requested.

 

Saddle soap was known to have hardened the leather, due to high alkalinic pH. Leather is acidic, but it does not means you want to douse it with acid. In such case, all manufacturer, all designers, ...etc..., wanted to be very careful to create a powerful cleaner without falling into either side of the pH scale. Therefore, a neutral pH was presumably the choice. However, they forgot, mildly acidic will not kill, not that pH neutral is that much necessary. 

 

Which, after explained all of that out for you, do you now get what I mean by "buffer" zone?

 

There goes the relation to typical thoughts, the "buffer" zone, and also, whatevz that you need to know. 

 

Keep yourself in positively critical. Help or get help. Don't push them out the window or door.


I am a bit lost on how you are using 'buffer' still. Are you using it in the way that the leather can shift pH a bit and still be in a healthy zone? Or are you referring to a buffer solution?

 

A buffer solution minimizes the change in pH by shifting it's equilibrium to match the addition of acidic hydronium ions, or basic hydroxide ions. Leathers are tanned with acidic buffers, and some products like vinegar (another good reason to use it) can act as a buffer solution.

 

What this means for your shoes is that if they are adequately buffered, the addition of even something very basic, can have a negligible effect on the pH.

post #14464 of 19065
Quote:
Originally Posted by AAJJLLPP View Post
 


I am a bit lost on how you are using 'buffer' still. Are you using it in the way that the leather can shift pH a bit and still be in a healthy zone? Or are you referring to a buffer solution?

 

A buffer solution minimizes the change in pH by shifting it's equilibrium to match the addition of acidic hydronium ions, or basic hydroxide ions. Leathers are tanned with acidic buffers, and some products like vinegar (another good reason to use it) can act as a buffer solution.

 

What this means for your shoes is that if they are adequately buffered, the addition of even something very basic, can have a negligible effect on the pH.

No no no, you get me entirely wrong. ENTIRELY WRONG!

 

Buffer zone that I was talking about does not have anything to do with chemical stuff. I was talking about how the chemists who designed the products would make their product in neutral pH just so that it is balanced in between both zones, neither alkalinic nor acidic, just so that the product sells and people cannot criticize them for designing a product neither tragically eats away their leather or hardens the piece beyond imagination. That was what I meant, nothing much about chemistry running here. 

 

Feel free to converse about it.

post #14465 of 19065
Quote:
Originally Posted by AAJJLLPP View Post
 


I am a bit lost on how you are using 'buffer' still. Are you using it in the way that the leather can shift pH a bit and still be in a healthy zone? Or are you referring to a buffer solution?

 

A buffer solution minimizes the change in pH by shifting it's equilibrium to match the addition of acidic hydronium ions, or basic hydroxide ions. Leathers are tanned with acidic buffers, and some products like vinegar (another good reason to use it) can act as a buffer solution.

 

What this means for your shoes is that if they are adequately buffered, the addition of even something very basic, can have a negligible effect on the pH.

On a side regard, though, I really appreciate how you bring forth the buffer solution, which, I think most products designers were toying around to get it right. 

post #14466 of 19065
AAJJLLPP, when you talk about buffering (you see that advertised in a lot of cosmetics "buffered glycolic acid" and such) what do you mean it shifts its equilibrium. What equilibrium? I was always under the impression that buffering was just the addition of another chemical to change the overall pH of the product, while retaining the desired chemical (in the case of cosmetics glycolic acid, or whatever). Is my thinking off on this?
post #14467 of 19065

FWIW I can say it looks pretty close to what he was under the impression of, Pat. 

post #14468 of 19065
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

AAJJLLPP, when you talk about buffering (you see that advertised in a lot of cosmetics "buffered glycolic acid" and such) what do you mean it shifts its equilibrium. What equilibrium? I was always under the impression that buffering was just the addition of another chemical to change the overall pH of the product, while retaining the desired chemical (in the case of cosmetics glycolic acid, or whatever). Is my thinking off on this?


A buffered acidic solution contains a weak acid and its conjugate base (vice versa for a buffered base). For example glycolic acid has the formula HOCH2COOH, then its conjugate base would be the same other than the loss off a hydrogen OCH2COOH- . Any weak acid does not fully dissociate in water it sits at an equilibrium, only a small percentage of the acidic molecules actually gives up their hydrogen in water making the solution more acidic. The addition of any basic hydroxide(OH-) lions will combine with the hydrogen from the weak acid to make H2O and a its conjugate base. Any acidic hydronium ions added (H3O+) will combine with the conjugate base to form H2O, and the weak acid molecule. Note that the weak acid molecule in itself is not acidic its only when it releases its hydrogen that it is contributing to the pH. If you are just worried about the product turning more basic the conjugate base is unnecessary and any weak acid could do the job, like vinegar.

 

 

 

Heres a more visual explanation:

http://chemcollective.org/activities/tutorials/buffers/buffers3

post #14469 of 19065

Now that I've been wearing these once or twice a week for a month or two, I am wondering if you guys think I need metal tips or not. Are my toes wearing down prematurely fast?

 

post #14470 of 19065

From the look of the soling paterns, I suppose those are AE's?

post #14471 of 19065
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post
 

From the look of the soling paterns, I suppose those are AE's?

Cheaney

post #14472 of 19065

Pardon me, then. 

 

Tip of the sole often wear down fast. I'd opt for taps on that place.

post #14473 of 19065
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post
 

Pardon me, then. 

 

Tip of the sole often wear down fast. I'd opt for taps on that place.

Sorry, didn't mean to be rude. Thanks for your recommendation. Just read that it depends on the person, so trying to figure out if I am one of those people.

post #14474 of 19065

No problem. Not really getting the people thing, but I'd definitely recommend you put toe taps on the tip of the soles.

post #14475 of 19065
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post
 

No problem. Not really getting the people thing, but I'd definitely recommend you put toe taps on the tip of the soles.

 

Alright, thanks for the advice!

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