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post #13876 of 19038

What, specifically, are bench-made shoes?  Presumably almost all shoes are made on a bench, so what does this term denote?

post #13877 of 19038

Mechanized processes instead of more hand works, I believe.

post #13878 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post

Mechanized processes instead of more hand works, I believe.

Yes: benchmade is a meaningless, unregulated designation that fancy shoemakers use to refer to lines with less handwork. E.g., machine clicking and closing.
post #13879 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post

What, specifically, are bench-made shoes?  Presumably almost all shoes are made on a bench, so what does this term denote?

Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post

Mechanized processes instead of more hand works, I believe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by godofcoffee View Post

Yes: benchmade is a meaningless, unregulated designation that fancy shoemakers use to refer to lines with less handwork. E.g., machine clicking and closing.

Benchmade is indeed a loose reference to a process that involves more hand work than machine work. But it's kind of like "faux leather," or "bullhide," or...perhaps more appropriately..."traditionally (GY) welted." Ultimately, it's meant to deceive.

Only in the age of marketing has such ambiguity become accepted. Shoemakers have always had a very specific lexicon that brooked no fuzziness.

That said, we do refer to knowledge or information that is "straight from the bench" to distinguish it from "read it in a book" (or on the Internet), or heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy. It's a reference to real-time, hands-on, wax under the fingernails, objective experience.
post #13880 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post




Benchmade is indeed a loose reference to a process that involves more hand work than machine work. But it's kind of like "faux leather," or "bullhide," or...perhaps more appropriately..."traditionally (GY) welted." Ultimately, it's meant to deceive.

Only in the age of marketing has such ambiguity become accepted. Shoemakers have always had a very specific lexicon that brooked no fuzziness.

That said, we do refer to knowledge or information that is "straight from the bench" to distinguish it from "read it in a book" (or on the Internet), or heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy. It's a reference to real-time, hands-on, wax under the fingernails, objective experience.

Most of what they called "hand grade" doesn't sound so appealing to me either. 

 

St. C and GG would be a totally different story.

post #13881 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post

Most of what they called "hand grade" doesn't sound so appealing to me either. 

St. C and GG would be a totally different story.

See, that's the attitude you need to have with anything you buy, or "buy into"--you need a healthy dose of skepticism or you're at the mercy of people who make it their business to present things in the best light possible even if, perhaps even especially if, it is misleading and deceptive.

"Hand grade" is not "hand made" and "grade" has an entirely different meaning and contextual implication than "made."

But the average Joe doesn't think about such things (better not to?)...he sees 'handgrade" and reads or thinks "hand made." Most people would buy "genuine faux leather" shoes and then be astonished...and vociferously defensive...when you told them they were plastic.

Every PR guy in the world knows all this...has thought about those implications, and ways to embroider them, extensively. It's generational...I didn't just suddenly discover it.

Every piece of marketing, esp. on the Internet has to be parsed against what is really being said and what seems to be being said.

--
Edited by DWFII - 3/4/15 at 11:10am
post #13882 of 19038
St C are hand welted. G&G...Goodyear&Gemming. But pretty. I'd buy them for that, but only at a big discount.
post #13883 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


See, that's the attitude you need to have with anything you buy, or "buy into"--you need a healthy dose of skepticism or you're at the mercy of people who make it their business to present things in the best light possible even if, perhaps even especially if, it is misleading and deceptive.

"Hand grade" is not "hand made" and "grade" has an entirely different meaning and contextual implication than "made."

But the average Joe doesn't think about such things (better not to?)...he sees 'handgrade" and reads or thinks "hand made." Most people would buy "genuine faux leather" shoes and then be astonished...and vociferously defensive...when you told them they were plastic.

Every PR guy in the world knows all this...has thought about those implications, and ways to embroider them, extensively. It's generational...I didn't just suddenly discover it.

Every piece of marketing, esp. on the Internet has to be parsed against what is really being said and what seems to be being said.

--

LOL! I'm with you, DW. 

 

I saw a video of C&J production line sometimes ago, and, quite frankly, I can quietly smile to myself on what they label "hand grade".  To be honest, it is rather funny when the only hands I can see would be those hands handling the shoes next to a machine. 

post #13884 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimo View Post

St C are hand welted. G&G...Goodyear&Gemming. But pretty. I'd buy them for that, but only at a big discount.

Somehow, with what I've been seeing, GG shoes seems to last a heck lot as long as those hand welted shoes.

post #13885 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post

Somehow, with what I've been seeing, GG shoes seems to last a heck lot as long as those hand welted shoes.

Travers, GYW shoes probably don't have much difference in terms of longevity from a construction perspective. My Church's shoes lasted more than 10 years with four cheap resoles at a local cobbler
post #13886 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowkin View Post


Travers, GYW shoes probably don't have much difference in terms of longevity from a construction perspective. My Church's shoes lasted more than 10 years with four cheap resoles at a local cobbler

Church's shoes are literally tanks, even for book binding leather lines, therefore, they can be seen as pretty much an exclusion. However, I suspect if there are many like your's. 

post #13887 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chowkin View Post


Travers, GYW shoes probably don't have much difference in terms of longevity from a construction perspective. My Church's shoes lasted more than 10 years with four cheap resoles at a local cobbler

+1, Graftons and Ketsby booties both book binder for rainy days. Gunboat shoes easy to maintain!!

post #13888 of 19038

Now I'm confused. Travers suggests that hand-grade shoes involve

 

"Mechanized processes instead of more hand work"s, I believe."  

 

While DWF says

 

" Benchmade is indeed a loose reference to a process that involves more hand work than machine work. But it's kind of like "faux leather," or "bullhide..."

post #13889 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post
 

Now I'm confused. Travers suggests that hand-grade shoes involve

 

"Mechanized processes instead of more hand work"s, I believe."  

 

While DWF says

 

" Benchmade is indeed a loose reference to a process that involves more hand work than machine work. But it's kind of like "faux leather," or "bullhide..."

Since when the hell, Munky! My response on mechanize process was all about the "bench grade" you asked of earlier.

post #13890 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post
 

What, specifically, are bench-made shoes?  Presumably almost all shoes are made on a bench, so what does this term denote?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post
 

Mechanized processes instead of more hand works, I believe.

 

I was clearly talking about bench grade shoes being mechanized in process, Munky. 

 

On the side notes, I don't buy (as in believe) the typical bullshit they called hand grade.

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