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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 909

post #13621 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonotovsOpera View Post


I think we're saying the same thing.
deadhorse-a.gif
Pardon me for flogging a dead horse But I don't think so...

What I'm saying is that if they were machine lasted, the problem had to be in the clicking--where on the hide the vamps were cut. And a disparity there.

And if they were hand lasted, the odds that the vamps were both cut from prime...and matched...is still extremely low.

Understand that when the vamps came from the clicker there was no visual difference. If one was cut from belly or shoulder it would not have been immediately noticed (although the clicker should have known). And when they came from the closer, there would still have been no apparent difference.

It is only in the lasting that the problem would have arisen--and really...to this degree...only if the vamps were not matched.

Lasting is a much more intimate process than clicking or cutting because it is only here that the effects of the clicker's work and the closer's work is proofed. Just drawing the shoe over the last such that the faux toe caps were aligned could be enough stress to flatten the embossing...but only if the vamps were cut such that they had different tempers and different lines of tight and stretch.

If nothing else, there is a minimum amount of stretching that is required...both length and width-wise. The bottom man couldn't pull one tight and then leave the other loose on the forepart of the last. And again, he had to pull the shoe enough to align the toes lengthwise. He had no choice.

IMO, only if the vamps were cut from different parts of the hide could this have become such a poke-in-the-eye problem.

There is almost no conceivable scenario that escapes the probability of mis-matched vamps during clicking.

--
Edited by DWFII - 2/19/15 at 5:13am
post #13622 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnewelljr View Post

Just got two pairs of Cheaneys. I am planning on using the following three products on them:

Saphir Super Invulner Spray (water proofing)

Saphir Renovateur (cleaning and conditioning)

Wax Polish (color matched, sold by Cheaney)


As these are my first "nice" shoes, I was wondering how often to apply each, what order, etc. I think it is unlikely I will have the discipline to do it weekly, so maybe something I can every month?

The water proofing spray would mostly be for suede. I haven't tried Invulner, but Nano Protector is awesome! Here's a video from Leffot:
https://vimeo.com/66478043

Renovateur is a great product IMO. I use it when needed, let it dry, then brush, then use Saphir cream polish, then brush, then wax on the toe and heel.
Edited by Fred G. Unn - 2/18/15 at 9:38pm
post #13623 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred G. Unn View Post


@Crat has a pretty good one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o135MzEDjws

Thanks Fred!

My first spit shine.  Much better than my previous attempt to shine the toe box.

Don't tell my wife that I had my shoes on the counter.

 

 

post #13624 of 19038

Question - is the recrafting of a pair of shoes always carried out by the same method by which it is constructed ? So a pair of handwelted vass can only be resoled via hand welting and not by GW or blake stiching?

post #13625 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred G. Unn View Post


The water proofing spray would mostly be for suede. I haven't tried Invulner, but Nano Protector is awesome! Here's a video from Leffot:
https://vimeo.com/66478043

Renovateur is a great product IMO. I use it when needed, let it dry, then brush, then use Saphir cream polish, then brush, then wax on the toe and heel.

 

Is NanoProtector going to ruin my shoes though? I mean longevity and breathing of the leather, etc? The Saphir stuff seems to be more natural and gentle

post #13626 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Staffer18283 View Post

Question - is the recrafting of a pair of shoes always carried out by the same method by which it is constructed ? So a pair of handwelted vass can only be resoled via hand welting and not by GW or blake stiching?

That's the idea.

But it's not because a GY shoe can't be converted to handwelted...although to do the job correctly the original last is needed, as well as access to better quality insole leather, etc....it's mostly because recrafting takes place in the same factory/premises that the shoe originated in, using the same techniques and the same machines, set to the same standards. The idea is to...as far as possible...return the shoe, as close as possible, to the brand new, original condition. Once upon a time that was the aspiration of shoe repair as well...[sigh].

It doesn't make any sense to convert a HW shoe to GY however, and if the shoe is trimmed properly after inseaming it may not even be possible. A conversion from GY or even HW to Blake or Blake/Rapid is almost certainly impossible.

Again, factories set up recraft departments to replicate the line and use essentially the same materials and procedures as the line. It doesn't make any sense whatever to build RTW shoes and then offer bespoke recraft...which is essentially what it would be if such conversions were offered.

Worth remembering as well is the notion that "recrafting" means different things to different outfits (although it shouldn't)--in one factory it means stripping the shoe down to the uppers, replacing the insole, relasting on the original last, and resoling the shoe. Sometimes even damaged linings are replaced. In another factory, it just means resoling and polishing back to factory standards.

But it is my understanding...and in the context of shoemaking as it has existed for centuries, it makes sense...that a recraft always replaces the insole and the welting and relasts...at least marginally. Otherwise it's just a resole job...which can often be done locally for far less money and nearly as well as a resole job done in the factory.
post #13627 of 19038
DW, when a shoe is sent back for a resole and in my recent case where the insole, and linings were replaced and a new sole attached would the toe and heel stiffeners also have to be removed and replaced to recast it properly? Also, since the shoe has stretched from wearing, wouldn't pulling it over the last again make the shoe fit like it was new and perhaps not restretch to the point it had after breaking it in? In the case of my almost completely recrafted shoes they were tighter when I got them back. Not sure if they will loosen up as I have not worn them in about a month due to travel.
post #13628 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

DW, when a shoe is sent back for a resole and in my recent case where the insole, and linings were replaced and a new sole attached would the toe and heel stiffeners also have to be removed and replaced to recast it properly? Also, since the shoe has stretched from wearing, wouldn't pulling it over the last again make the shoe fit like it was new and perhaps not restretch to the point it had after breaking it in? In the case of my almost completely recrafted shoes they were tighter when I got them back. Not sure if they will loosen up as I have not worn them in about a month due to travel.

pB,

Well, as far as the toe and heel stiffs, probably not.. Toe stiffs in particular are often bonded to both the the lining and the vamp. Heel stiffeners as well although perhaps not as strongly. Removing them would make relasting and re-aligning a shoe a little more problematic.

Recrafting definitely has the possibility of tightening the shoe, but if the same last is used with the same methods of construction, the inseam (even if it is GY) should be pretty much in the same place and using the same holes in the upper. So theoretically, at least, the fit doesn't automatically have to change.

If a shoe comes back tighter...you are absolutely correct,. there is less stretch left in the upper than there was originally. Thus break-in will take longer and may never return to the state it was in before recraft.

--
Edited by DWFII - 2/19/15 at 8:07am
post #13629 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnewelljr View Post

Is NanoProtector going to ruin my shoes though? I mean longevity and breathing of the leather, etc? The Saphir stuff seems to be more natural and gentle

I've used Nano on all my suede and I think it works great. IMO, there's no need to spray anything on calf or other leather shoes.
post #13630 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred G. Unn View Post


I've used Nano on all my suede and I think it works great. IMO, there's no need to spray anything on calf or other leather shoes.

 

How come? I am just new to nicer shoes. I actually in the past have always sprayed all my leather shoes with saphir protector. Wont calf get ruined from water too?

post #13631 of 19038
Don't wear your nice shoes in bad weather. In bad weather wear crappy stuff. That's what I do.
post #13632 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

DW, when a shoe is sent back for a resole and in my recent case where the insole, and linings were replaced and a new sole attached would the toe and heel stiffeners also have to be removed and replaced to recast it properly? Also, since the shoe has stretched from wearing, wouldn't pulling it over the last again make the shoe fit like it was new and perhaps not restretch to the point it had after breaking it in? In the case of my almost completely recrafted shoes they were tighter when I got them back. Not sure if they will loosen up as I have not worn them in about a month due to travel.



I doubt that the shoes got tighter if they were done correctly.
They may seam to be tighter bc the new sole is a more rigid piece of leather than the worn out sole was.
The new sole being more rigid pulls the upper down making the shoe feel tighter but actually the shoe hasn't changed size.
They should break in relatively quickly.
post #13633 of 19038
Yeah, I wore them about five times and literally had to remove them and walk a few blocks home because they lacerated my toe.
post #13634 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Yeah, I wore them about five times and literally had to remove them and walk a few blocks home because they lacerated my toe.

Something went wrong.....Have you contacted the company?
post #13635 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred G. Unn View Post


I've used Nano on all my suede and I think it works great. IMO, there's no need to spray anything on calf or other leather shoes.

 

Agreed on both points. 

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