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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 855

post #12811 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Why do you use the term "grease"?

Dubbin, the original weatherproofing product developed during the Medieval era for early leathers, was a gerund of "Dubbing", or the act of rubbing a product into the leather. The product itself, matter of fact, was the consistency of a grease (the ingredients also reflects the true nature, hence the name). The French called it "Graisse", which, fairly obvious, means grease. The only two cultures so far I know call this grease as "Dubbin" would be us Americans and British, respectively. Germans were the ones who labelled it "lederfett", or literal translation, "leather food" (as seen used by Chelsea dubbin leather food). 

 

Earliest mixtures of Dubbin consist of beef tallow and neatsfoot or fish oil, heated and mixes until they are thoroughly blended together. The consistency, as replicated today, looks a lot more like grease than anything else.

 

During the late 19th Century to the earlier part of the last century, people often call the product "shoe grease" and "boot grease" a little more.

 

Note, for those grease, there is little to no waxes used. That was to keep them highly lubricative for the leather fibers. Anything mixtures with waxes in it was named leather dressing - one of the examples of today's leather dressing that reflected the proper mixture of the past is the Montana Pitch Blend's stuff.

 

(@DWFII, I would love to have your assistance, again, if I sound much like an idiot on this post)

post #12812 of 19073
Not gonna lie, I only skimmed what you wrote there, but the term "grease" only means "oils and fats". Why not call it what it is? You seem to use the term along with others that mean really the same thing, "Grease, or dubbin", or "fats and greases". Just say dubbin, dude.
post #12813 of 19073
Do you know the contents of the Saphir dubbin? My guess is no because they are bastards about their ingredients.
post #12814 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Not gonna lie, I only skimmed what you wrote there, but the term "grease" only means "oils and fats". Why not call it what it is? You seem to use the term along with others that mean really the same thing, "Grease, or dubbin", or "fats and greases". Just say dubbin, dude.

Again, dubbin was just a term coined by the original verb "dubbing", or apply a product to the leather. Try mix the two ingredients, oils and fats, together, sometimes, and mix them thoroughly, see what kind of content they become.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Do you know the contents of the Saphir dubbin? My guess is no because they are bastards about their ingredients.

Saphir claimed their dubbin made of mink oil, seal oil, and salmon oil, with the addition of unknown stuff (I guess mutton tallow and/or beef tallow, based on the consistency). It kind works great, but over application and the stuff leaves thick film. It can also smell awful and fishy at some point. 

 

Maybe one day they will accidentally release their ingredients, which, thus, could give us a better vision into those.


Edited by traverscao - 1/9/15 at 6:24am
post #12815 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post

(@DWFII
, I would love to have your assistance, again, if I sound much like an idiot on this post)

"I'm a shoemaker, Jim, not a chemist."

Dressings of any sort are essential to what I do but only incidentally. I have used some of these products time out of mind. And abandoned or discontinued using them...for one reason or another...on a regular basis. Sometimes because I didn't like what I was seeing, sometimes because I found something I like better. Almost never for objectively scientific reasons.

I never use heavy oils, fats or greases...or anything similar...on dress shoes or boots if I can help it. Most contemporary shoes are made of chrome tanned leather and if not made with an opaque finish, get soggy and/or change colour very quickly.

Oil stuffed leathers, which are almost by definition, not dress leathers, are another matter and my go-to product is Montana Pitch Blend. But I expect such products to change the colour of the leather and never expect the leather to shine ever again...if it ever did.
post #12816 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


"I'm a shoemaker, Jim, not a chemist."

Dressings of any sort are essential to what I do but only incidentally. I have used some of these products time out of mind. And abandoned or discontinued using them...for one reason or another...on a regular basis. Sometimes because I didn't like what I was seeing, sometimes because I found something I like better. Almost never for objectively scientific reasons.

I never use heavy oils, fats or greases...or anything similar...on dress shoes or boots if I can help it. Most contemporary shoes are made of chrome tanned leather and if not made with an opaque finish, get soggy and/or change colour very quickly.

Oil stuffed leathers, which are almost by definition, not dress leathers, are another matter and my go-to product is Montana Pitch Blend. But I expect such products to change the colour of the leather and never expect the leather to shine ever again...if it ever did.

Somehow, under controlled amounts, a moderate application of Montana pitch blend on my calfskin shoes, letting dry properly, always allow me to get a shine later on.

 

Do you apply by fingers or with a cloth? I apply with fingers for the upper, and with a small applicator brush (pencil dauber) on the welt area.

post #12817 of 19073

This may be useful to those who like more info about the contents of shoe polishes:

 

 

http://eng.mst.dk/media/mst/69130/52.pdf

post #12818 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post
 

This may be useful to those who like more info about the contents of shoe polishes:

 

 

http://eng.mst.dk/media/mst/69130/52.pdf

Thanks Munk! Those will be much useful!

post #12819 of 19073

It is worth looking at a lot of this document. From a personal point of view, I was interested in the effects of turpentine on a range of bodily systems. A lot of the document went way over my head but I thought it would provide useful info for those more in the know. 

post #12820 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post

Again, dubbin was just a term coined by the original verb "dubbing", or apply a product to the leather. Try mix the two ingredients, oils and fats, together, sometimes, and mix them thoroughly, see what kind of content they become.

Saphir claimed their dubbin made of mink oil, seal oil, and salmon oil, with the addition of unknown stuff (I guess mutton tallow and/or beef tallow, based on the consistency). It kind works great, but over application and the stuff leaves thick film. It can also smell awful and fishy at some point. 

Maybe one day they will accidentally release their ingredients, which, thus, could give us a better vision into those.

Just go request MSDS from the manufacturers or importers and wear houses of you are really that curious.

I use saphir dubbin extremely rarely. In very little amounts. It does help leather gaining some non waxy luster.
post #12821 of 19073
MSDS sheets don't have much info on them. Only required to put hazardous stuff and such. I've never seen one that explicitly states the ingredients.
post #12822 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

MSDS sheets don't have much info on them. Only required to put hazardous stuff and such. I've never seen one that explicitly states the ingredients.

True. 

 

And we cannot forget, no matter what the circumstances is, they will still remain a secret. It's part of the trade. 

 

Judging from the smell, though, I guess they were partly honest about the ingredients.

post #12823 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post
 

It is worth looking at a lot of this document. From a personal point of view, I was interested in the effects of turpentine on a range of bodily systems. A lot of the document went way over my head but I thought it would provide useful info for those more in the know. 

FWIW, turpentine has got a fairly ill side effect which is benzene. You don't throw stuff with turpentine to the ecosystem, too, because it will literally poison the whole place.

post #12824 of 19073
Quote:
Originally Posted by namdaemun View Post

Question on suede

I have a medium brown brogue that I'd like to dye to Navy. I've been looking at Kellys suede dye but wonder if anyone can help teach me how to dye these from brown to navy.

Thanks!


I would advise against attempting it.
Chances are far greater that you will ruin your shoes than be happy with the results.
Years ago suede dyes were reliable.

Several years ago the Government came out with new regulations that caused a change in the formula that was being used in the manufacturing of suede dyes. Ever since then the dyes were not reliable or consistent.
I don't know of any Pro's or Finders for that matter that are happy with the suede dyes of today.

Here are some things that will likely happen:
The existing color my keep bleeding through as the pigments are not nearly as strong as they were.
By putting on several coats (in order to mask the bleeding) blotching and or streaking may appear.
Some areas will appear shinny.
In some areas the suede will matte down looking more like rough leather than suede.
The suede will have an inconsistent nappe and will stiffen.
post #12825 of 19073
Leather Doctor might have some decent dyes, their stuff is pretty good. I don't know the ingredients and how it compared to the old stuff however.
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