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post #12691 of 19050
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post


So this stuff is available then. I must admit it sounds pretty awesome. I don't understand why you can't just make it yourself. Is it as simple as getting some sort of non-split veg tanned suede and waxing it? What am I missing here?

In some cases it may be...I suspect in most cases, unfortunately--none of the sites above are more specific than "heavy wax" on the flesh surface. Many folks making shoes and boots for Civil War reenactors do just exactly that.

But the Traditional stuff...the real stuff...was a much more complicated and time consuming process. I would like to look at and try some of the Baker iteration if I could gt my hands on it but I suspect that's easier said than done.
post #12692 of 19050

And, remember, Pat, it's heavy, HEAVY grease. You need to deposit a huge amount of oils, waxes and greases in the leather, so that it can work its full effects (naps all low, if scuffed rub a bone on and take the scuff out etc). You also need a very warm attic to store it, or else the grease can spew, or else cannot dry up as wanted, and the result will pretty much be screwed. 

 

DW also mentioned of a specific hide that will make the best waxed calf, a kip butt.

post #12693 of 19050
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


In some cases it may be...I suspect in most cases, unfortunately--none of the sites above are more specific than "heavy wax" on the flesh surface. Many folks making shoes and boots for Civil War reenactors do just exactly that.

But the Traditional stuff...the real stuff...was a much more complicated and time consuming process. I would like to look at and try some of the Baker iteration if I could gt my hands on it but I suspect that's easier said than done.

DW, you have to include the fact that they are trying to save the recipe for themselves, not disclosing it to the wide public like you would kindly did (you had a heart of a whale, DW, with all the love I have).

post #12694 of 19050
I wonder if this Baker's stuff is easier for Europeans to get their hands on.
post #12695 of 19050
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post

@DWFII
, help me out if I sound very silly, will you?

Pretty much spot on but thickness has nothing to do with it. Most of the surviving examples were fairly thick because the style of making...and the fact that it already had a smooth grain surface inside the shoe...dictated that no linings were used. Waxed calf was as thick as "ordinary" calf plus a lining.
post #12696 of 19050
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

I wonder if this Baker's stuff is easier for Europeans to get their hands on.

Certainly so. I have dealt with Baker in the past and Andrew Parr is a great fellow. But like a lot of old British companies...I suspect...a little bemused by the Internet. It's hard to confirm an order and months in the shipping. Then you have VAT and customs and customs brokers.

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post #12697 of 19050
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post

DW, you have to include the fact that they are trying to save the recipe for themselves, not disclosing it to the wide public like you would kindly did (you had a heart of a whale, DW, with all the love I have).

Nah, the recipe is obscure but no secret. It's just that to do it, it's a pain in the backside, requires a lot of manual labour and equally obscure ingredients and takes a long time before any cash flow is in the offing.
post #12698 of 19050
It can't be that much more time consuming and costly than Horween making shell. I guess there just isn't the same demand for it as shell these days. I would guess any sort of tallow, oil, and wax would suffice.
post #12699 of 19050
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

It can't be that much more time consuming and costly than Horween making shell. I guess there just isn't the same demand for it as shell these days. I would guess any sort of tallow, oil, and wax would suffice.

I suspect you may be gravely mistaken there, pB. The Traditional recipe call for at least a year for the leather to "mellow." Just the business of shining them after making is tedious...and dirty. Historically, most people who owned boots made of this kind of leather had servants to do the shining.

By comparison to the Traditional waxed calf, shell is "fiddly work.".

And FWIW, the Traditional recipe doesn't call for any wax...in the sense that most people define "wax."

--
Edited by DWFII - 1/5/15 at 6:43am
post #12700 of 19050
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

It can't be that much more time consuming and costly than Horween making shell. I guess there just isn't the same demand for it as shell these days. I would guess any sort of tallow, oil, and wax would suffice.

It is much more, Pat, because you need up to a year or over. Then you have this scrubbing thing and the hand burnishing which is annoying. Did I tell you that blacking powder would never get off of your hands?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


I suspect you're wrong there,pB. The Traditional recipe call for at least a year for the leather to "mellow." Just the business of shining them after making is tedious...and dirty. Historically, most people who owned boots made of this kind of leather had servants to do the shining.

By comparison to the Traditional waxed calf, shell is "fiddly work.".

And FWIW, the Traditional recipe doesn't call for any wax...in the sense that most people define "wax."

Really DW? No wax? I thought on the leather property thread or so, you did mentioned of beeswax. Would it harm using wax in the grease mixture, though?

 

Other than that, can waxed calf be in its natural dark brown color? Or must it always be black?

post #12701 of 19050
Horween is claiming their Hunstman is similar to this waxed calf. I am guessing they aren't letting it mellow for a year, however. Anybody have experience with this stuff? I wonder if I can get the Huntsman leather and do it myself. I just need to get my hands on an attic... They are a bit hard to come by in NYC.
post #12702 of 19050
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post

It is much more, Pat, because you need up to a year or over. Then you have this scrubbing thing and the hand burnishing which is annoying. Did I tell you that blacking powder would never get off of your hands?

Really DW? No wax? I thought on the leather property thread or so, you did mentioned of beeswax.

Well I don't have the recipe in front of me right now....and my memory for things I don't use much gets a little iffy. I'd have to dig it up.

How much beeswax would be need for a whole hide? I think the beeswax would be counterproductive because it would leave a residue on the surface of the flesh that would be much harder to remove with the soap than the tallow or lanolin, etc..
Quote:
Other than that, can waxed calf be in its natural dark brown color?

Probably.
post #12703 of 19050
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Horween is claiming their Hunstman is similar to this waxed calf. I am guessing they aren't letting it mellow for a year, however. Anybody have experience with this stuff? I wonder if I can get the Huntsman leather and do it myself. I just need to get my hands on an attic... They are a bit hard to come by in NYC.

I've used it...relatively often in my early years. And no, beyond the stuffing and mellowing, the flesh is dyed and then lacquered. Yes, lacquer...like model airplane dope.
post #12704 of 19050
I've noticed that rubbing beeswax based polishes with a bone just kind of smudges things up rather than polishes.
post #12705 of 19050
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

I've used it...relatively often in my early years. And no, beyond the stuffing and mellowing, the flesh is dyed and then lacquered. Yes, lacquer...like model airplane dope.

That sounds awful.
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