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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 821

post #12301 of 19068
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

I think the way shell creases is what makes it all kinds of awesome for a whole cut. The whole cut is the raw denim of shoes. A blank canvas for all things to make it something new.

 

Do you wear them with more casual style clothes then? I do not own a whole cut as I dress strictly casual and thought they would not look right with my wardrobe.

post #12302 of 19068
I don't wear casual clothes, so no.
post #12303 of 19068
This is just my opinion...I've never been invited to a black tie event much less a white tie event...so take it for what its worth.

I don't like shell, I don't like to work with shell. It doesn't skive well nor does it fold well. Worse, a pair of shell shoes almost always has to come from two different shells. If the colour is anything but black (and even then, better to be safe than sorry), each piece must be cut in a precise alignment or the colour will be different from shoe to shoe and from vamp to quarter. Simply because of the way shell reflects light (I have this information direct from Skip Horween, for those who doubt).

That said, I took art classes in college, back in the day, and I came away with the understanding and, more importantly, the belief that less is more.

A whole cut is both the epitome of clean, minimalized elegance and a reflection of the makers skill and ability to finesse where there isn't much room or opportunity to finesse.

Combine that with the way that shell creases--the fine, almost invisible creases...and you have a shoe that is understated and unpretentious. It doesn't call attention to itself with gaudy declarations or ornamentation, nor aspire to be something it is not. Sound familiar? Sounds like nearly the definition of "formal" to me...in a way that a brogued shoe can never be (and I love broguing and gimping).

I think Benhour's illustration is pretty accurate...I might put the whole cut first and the plain toe oxford second but that's a small niggle. I don't think that calf is necessarily more formal than shell. I don't think the leather matters if the shoes are polished and maintained.

Just my 2cents.gif

--
post #12304 of 19068
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahuna75 View Post
 

 

Right, regardless that it can be shined it is not a material that lends itself to a whole cut.. Shell wrinkles oddly and as we have seen via @patrickBOOTH photo it can get all types of nasty on it just from something as silly as overspray at the urinal or diving for scallops. So if you have a leather prone to those types of problems and it is a leather originally introduced as a tough workmans leather then I would think it would not lend itself to a formal sleek and unique shoe like the wholecut.

 

So sure Shell sucks as a dress shoe leather but this thread is about shoe care not specifically shoe care for dress shoes and stupid mirror shined toes.

Dude you really need you work on your logic a little bit.

 

They even made wholecuts out of stuff like snuff suede. Basically any materials can be made into a wholecut. 

 

Why shell? Just like a trouser cuff on a Navy Blue suit, when out of water, mud, piss, and shit invasion, shell will definitely take a gorgeous shine, brush or bull, and will last that shine for month, typically. I can tell you, I have spotting problems even with calf, let alone shell.

 

This thread is for everyone who gives a try in caring for all types of shoes, and if you go back to the last 12000+ posts you will find many of us trying to come up with a solution, along with enjoy wearing the leather.

post #12305 of 19068
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

This is just my opinion...I've never been invited to a black tie event much less a white tie event...so take it for what its worth.

I don't like shell, I don't like to work with shell. It doesn't skive well nor does it fold well. Worse, a pair of shell shoes almost always has to come from two different shells. If the colour is anything but black , each piece must be cut in a precise alignment or the colour will be different from shoe to shoe and from vamp to quarter. Simply because of the way shell reflects light (I had this discussion with Skip Horween for those who doubt).

That said, I took art classes in college and I came away with the understanding and, more importantly, the belief that less is more.

A whole cut is both the epitome of clean, minimalized elegance and a reflection of the makers skill and ability to finesse where there isn't much room or opportunity to finesse.

Combine that with the way that shell creases--the fine, almost invisible creases...and you have a shoe that is understated and unpretentious. It doesn't call attention to itself or aspire to be something it is not. Sound familiar? Sounds "formal" to me...in a way that a brogued shoe can never be (and I love broguing and gimping).

I think Benhour's illustration is pretty accurate...I might put the whole cut first and the plain toe oxford second but that's a small niggle. I don't think that calf is necessarily more formal than shell. I don't think the leather matters if the shoes are polished and maintained.

Just my 2cents.gif

Well, DW, if only they make patent leather the way it should be made - oiled, stuffed, and varnished on the roughside of a real piece of leather, with real materials such as linseed oils and varnishes.

 

I saw an illustration on StyleForum and somewhere-else-or-another regarding dress shoes made of waxed calf (reverse waxed calf, mind the poor people obsessed with CXL), and I kinda went wild with the idea. I guess before I go to CA I just oughtta stop by at your place to get measured up for a pair of something dressy in that highly shine reverse waxed calf. I bet they can potentially rival with shell. I had suggested Pat if he wanted to switch to reversed waxed calf, but so far, you seems to be the only one with the appropriate material.

 

I am thinking of finding a Navy blue shell. I think Navy blue shell is the solution to replace black, but that is just me. I like Deep blue shoes polished with black, occasionally, under bulling method.

 

What do you think?

post #12306 of 19068

Call me an old fool, if you like but I only wear casual clothes and often wear my wholecuts. I thought the days of a strict dress code were behind us - especially when such a code is applied to casual clothes.

post #12307 of 19068
The only thing I somewhat disagree with on Ben's diagram is the U tip and the monk. For some reason in my mind a monk is more formal than a U tip. I understand why it isn't in the context of that diagram, but from my perspective, there is something sleeker about a monk due to the simplicity of the vamp and toe. Sure it has a buckle, but the abundant stitching in a U tip, imo, makes it less formal. FWIW, I wouldn't wear a U tip, but I do wear monks.
post #12308 of 19068
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post

Call me an old fool, if you like but I only wear casual clothes and often wear my wholecuts. I thought the days of a strict dress code were behind us. 

I think they can look good with slim jeans. I saw a dude wearing slimmer black jeans and black wholecuts. It looked very cool, very late 60's Velvet Underground or something.

I also find it kind of unnerving that the autocorrect on my mac corrects "wholecut" to "holocaust".
post #12309 of 19068
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post


I think they can look good with slim jeans. I saw a dude wearing slimmer black jeans and black wholecuts. It looked very cool, very late 60's Velvet Underground or something.

I also find it kind of unnerving that the autocorrect on my mac corrects "wholecut" to "holocaust".

:lol:

post #12310 of 19068
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahuna75 View Post
 

 

Right, regardless that it can be shined it is not a material that lends itself to a whole cut.. Shell wrinkles oddly and as we have seen via @patrickBOOTH photo it can get all types of nasty on it just from something as silly as overspray at the urinal or diving for scallops. So if you have a leather prone to those types of problems and it is a leather originally introduced as a tough workmans leather then I would think it would not lend itself to a formal sleek and unique shoe like the wholecut.

 

So sure Shell sucks as a dress shoe leather but this thread is about shoe care not specifically shoe care for dress shoes and stupid mirror shined toes.

Dude you really need you work on your logic a little bit.

 

They even made wholecuts out of stuff like snuff suede. Basically any materials can be made into a wholecut. 

 

Why shell? Just like a trouser cuff on a Navy Blue suit, when out of water, mud, piss, and shit invasion, shell will definitely take a gorgeous shine, brush or bull, and will last that shine for month, typically. I can tell you, I have spotting problems even with calf, let alone shell.

 

This thread is for everyone who gives a try in caring for all types of shoes, and if you go back to the last 12000+ posts you will find many of us trying to come up with a solution, along with enjoy wearing the leather.

 

My logic is sound in that I thought ....notice the word "thought"...not fact...that a wholecut would be worn in a conservative business or formal attire...shell tends to roll and crease often time creating unsightly two tone effects that do not look appealing to the other 99% of the population that are not shoe nerds.

 

So giving what I just stated....I could not imagine ever walking into a business meeting at a Goldman, Morgan Stanley, Vornado or any big conservative company wearing shell dress shoes. Have times changed? perhaps.

 

Just asking questions and trying to learn that's all.

post #12311 of 19068
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

The only thing I somewhat disagree with on Ben's diagram is the U tip and the monk. For some reason in my mind a monk is more formal than a U tip. I understand why it isn't in the context of that diagram, but from my perspective, there is something sleeker about a monk due to the simplicity of the vamp and toe. Sure it has a buckle, but the abundant stitching in a U tip, imo, makes it less formal. FWIW, I wouldn't wear a U tip, but I do wear monks.

I agree. U-tip often associates with Norwegian welt and even a boot upper, sometimes in crossgrain pattern, and boy, if that looks more formal than a smooth monk, then Antarctica just became the north pole.

post #12312 of 19068
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahuna75 View Post

My logic is sound in that I thought ....notice the word "thought"...not fact...that a wholecut would be worn in a conservative business or formal attire...shell tends to roll and crease often time creating unsightly two tone effects that do not look appealing to the other 99% of the population that are not shoe nerds.

So giving what I just stated....I could not imagine ever walking into a business meeting at a Goldman, Morgan Stanley, Vornado or any big conservative company wearing shell dress shoes. Have times changed? perhaps.

Just asking questions and trying to learn that's all.

I walk into conservative business meetings all of the time wearing shell wholecuts. I don't think anybody has ever looked at my shoes, nor has anybody ever commented on them. I, on the other hand, notice walnut shoes with navy suits that runs rampant these days. Horrible, imo.

Also, shell does fade in the creases and such and I think it looks awesome. I like the aging of the leather. FWIW, good crust calf that many higher end makers use will also lighten up in the vamp. To me it's actually desirable.
post #12313 of 19068
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post

What do you think?

I can't get good...or true...waxed calf anymore. There was a fellow in England--Kellet was his name, IIRC...who was 90 about ten years ago. Needless to say...

And the Horween waxed calf is crap.

I often do things to challenge myself--like crimp up seamless wholecuts, or channel-stitch the way it is described in Garsault's 1767 Art du Cordonnier, or make my own waxed calf. But..esp. in the absence of real demand, I'm not going to make up waxed calf from scratch or attempt to burnish it to a mirror shine using nothing but wheat starch. .
post #12314 of 19068
Horween has this newer leathers called Dublin, it might be what you are referring to, or it might be something new. It seems to be all veg tanned, fat liquored, hand glazed and waxed.

Also their Excel leather is straight veg tanned, and hot stuffed, hand glazed, and waxed.
post #12315 of 19068
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahuna75 View Post
 

 

My logic is sound in that I thought ....notice the word "thought"...not fact...that a wholecut would be worn in a conservative business or formal attire...shell tends to roll and crease often time creating unsightly two tone effects that do not look appealing to the other 99% of the population that are not shoe nerds.

 

So giving what I just stated....I could not imagine ever walking into a business meeting at a Goldman, Morgan Stanley, Vornado or any big conservative company wearing shell dress shoes. Have times changed? perhaps.

 

Just asking questions and trying to learn that's all.

Time changed, but rather changed for another long time ago. I'm sorry if I sounded offensive, though.

 

Fashion industry evolved. People's needs always increase, also. Traditional dressy box calf from France or Freudenberg isn't enough. They don't protect nor last their shine. In an ordinary day, maybe, but it happens in places like London and NYC where people always have important meetings and formal work, where driving a car to work sometimes isn't an option, or a full option (for many folks had to park elsewhere before head to workplace because parking space isn't right at the workplace). 

 

Calf leather is beautiful when shine up, but sometimes we just don't have the time to brush, cream, wax, then bull the skin again. It also prones to cracking, because it was worn on the grain side, which, the long strands of fibers are fully exposed, along with the pores and openings of the fiber structure. Someone who walks a lot like Pat will definitely experience cracking within a short time.

 

Shell is damn durable, once the leather is successfully made into a pair of shoes. Shell was once thought to be indestructible, yet requires light maintenance, for someone who wears the leather only need daily brushing and can stretch the maintenance schedule out for a little longer. The very smooth, glazed surface of shell promised polished surface will last longer (the promise Alden made with acrylic coatings, unfortunately). However, shell is far from perfect, no thanks to the tendency of cosmetic defects under certain conditions. This is the other edge(s) to the wonderful hot stuff and oil currying process it underwent - moisture is trapped and thus forms the bumps.

 

So, yes, Shell had more or less officially stand in the same level of calf and could be well more appreciated over calf, but as calf goes, shell is not without a flaw.

 

Still, I'd take shell over calf any day but a summer day.

 

I'm looking forward to clear off my schedule and take a trip to DW. He had the material I want to try - waxed calf. It can be promising.

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