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post #11821 of 19058

So no the consensus is that Renovateur ruins uppers on shoes by over-drying them?  Well great I guess I fell for great marketing since I now use it to condition all of my shoes 2-4 times a year.

post #11822 of 19058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beach Bum View Post

So no the consensus is that Renovateur ruins uppers on shoes by over-drying them?  Well great I guess I fell for great marketing since I now use it to condition all of my shoes 2-4 times a year.
Dunno if there's a consensus. I stopped using it as a conditioner (switched to lexol) cos I felt it was drying the vamps out on my museum calf shoes. I now only use it very occasionally to revitalise the shine on the toes. Still, some people swear by the stuff
post #11823 of 19058
Renovateur is expensive. VSC is cheap. Nick Horween recommended both. VSC will soak in to the leather, I don't know how far, if you get the shoe up to body temperature with a blow drier.

I suffered through the Reno wars but it was never clear that Reno was ruining shoes. It seemed more likely it was using a lot of products, some of which may have stripped fats out of the leather.
Edited by dbhdnhdbh - 11/21/14 at 9:14am
post #11824 of 19058
Reno is great at bringing a shine back to wax polished areas of the shoes and smoothing out some rougher finishes. That is pretty much what I use it for. A half a pea amount swirled on a toe cap brings back a dulling mirror shine. That's all that I use it for. It is too much of a polish to be used solely as a conditioner, IME. As I stated numerous times every shoes that I have owned that saw nothing but Saphir polish and reno as conditioner have cracked and ended up in the garbage. Does it mean reno did this? I don't know, but it certainly didn't prevent it from happening.
post #11825 of 19058
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

 As I stated numerous times every shoes that I have owned that saw nothing but Saphir polish and reno as conditioner have cracked and ended up in the garbage. 

 

You didn't turn them into a gourmet meal????  perfectly good...and thrown in the trash???? :confused:

post #11826 of 19058
I actually have two pairs still collecting more dust in my closet. I think I might tie the laces together and throw them up on a power line. The most expensive shoes to be hanging from powerlines in Brooklyn. Some iGent might try to snatch them I'm sure.
post #11827 of 19058

I have some Loake's Chester brouges and have just bought some Loake's Buckingham brogues. Both are described as 'tan'. However, there is a considerable colour difference between the two pairs. Both pairs are made in the UK from calf leather.  The Chesters are about 2 years old and are a 'brighter' colour than the new shoes. Is this just the way of things?  I image there are quite a few variables involved in the colouring and conditioning of leather.   Fond regards, Munky

post #11828 of 19058
I'll also say reno works well as what it says it is for, which is a "Cleaner"/conditioner. If I get caught in rain and there is dirt and spots on my shoes, a very small amount does pick up the spots, but again, I don't use it on the vamp, only parts of the shoe that don't bend.
post #11829 of 19058
Let's discuss this theory that wax polish "chokes" the leather out. At the same time I think wax polish actually slows down, or inhibits the evaporation of the fat liquors and oils in the leather. Think about it. Corrected grain shoes don't crack very easily. I see so many people with corrected grain shoes beat to shit with no cracking. My idea is that the finishing keeps the oils and such inside the leather rather than easily evaporating. So, if you are only conditioning your shoes once in a while and just applying a bit of wax routinely it somewhat means that the wax is slowing down the leeching out of the oils.
post #11830 of 19058
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Let's discuss this theory that wax polish "chokes" the leather out. At the same time I think wax polish actually slows down, or inhibits the evaporation of the fat liquors and oils in the leather. Think about it. Corrected grain shoes don't crack very easily. I see so many people with corrected grain shoes beat to shit with no cracking. My idea is that the finishing keeps the oils and such inside the leather rather than easily evaporating. So, if you are only conditioning your shoes once in a while and just applying a bit of wax routinely it somewhat means that the wax is slowing down the leeching out of the oils.
Eeenteresting!
post #11831 of 19058
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Let's discuss this theory that wax polish "chokes" the leather out. At the same time I think wax polish actually slows down, or inhibits the evaporation of the fat liquors and oils in the leather. Think about it. Corrected grain shoes don't crack very easily. I see so many people with corrected grain shoes beat to shit with no cracking. My idea is that the finishing keeps the oils and such inside the leather rather than easily evaporating. So, if you are only conditioning your shoes once in a while and just applying a bit of wax routinely it somewhat means that the wax is slowing down the leeching out of the oils.

I don't know if you've ever been in the military, but in those units where a spit shine is (or was) absolutely necessary to stay off KP, cracking, extreme cracking...from too much wax...is the norm rather than the exception.

Waxes (and greases) tend to collect and concentrate micro fine particles right where they can do the most damage. You almost never see cracking in the quarters or the facings or even in the waist. It's always where constant flexing is taking place.

I wouldn't take issue that wax seals in conditioners, but it is also occlusive--it seals in everything, preventing the shoes from 'breathing."

An aspect we often forget is that a shoe, and the environment inside a shoe...esp. when the leather cannot breathe...is a very good petri dish for bacteria. Particularly when conditioners and other products that are intended to "nourish," or "feed," the leather are added. Such bacteria thrive in a hot moist environment. And some of them are just as happy to eat human flesh as mink oil, or tallow, lanolin, fat liquors, etc.. (Think tinea pedis, athletes foot, toenail fungus. )

A lot of corrected grain leather has a layer of polyurethane or some similar...very flexible, very impervious...material bonded to the grain. If the plastic coating doesn't crack there will be no cracks in the leather. Do Crocs crack out? Swimms? If so, it is usually over a very long time period and due more to damage from ultra violet rays than anything else.

And yes, corrected grain shoes are hot and occlusive and the people wearing them somewhat more apt to have foot problems.

--
Edited by DWFII - 11/21/14 at 9:06am
post #11832 of 19058
The idea is to strike a good balance, I guess. Waxes, while occlusive aren't that occlusive. It would really take quite a lot of wax to completely repel water from the leather surface. I wouldn't condone that at all.
post #11833 of 19058
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


I don't know if you've ever been in the military, but in those units where a spit shine is (or was) absolutely necessary to stay off KP, cracking, extreme cracking...from too much wax...is the norm rather than the exception.

Waxes (and greases) tend to collect and concentrate micro fine particles right where they can do the most damage. You almost never see cracking in the quarters or the facings or even in the waist. It's always where constant flexing is taking place.

I wouldn't take issue that wax seals in conditioners, but it is also occlusive--it seals in everything, preventing the shoes from 'breathing."

An aspect we often forget is that a shoe, and the environment inside a shoe...esp. when the leather cannot breathe...is a very good petri dish for bacteria. Particularly when conditioners and other products that are intended to "nourish," or "feed," the leather are added. Such bacteria thrive in a hot moist environment. And some of them are just as happy to eat human flesh as mink oil, or tallow, lanolin, fat liquors, etc.. (Think tinea pedis, athletes foot, toenail fungus. )

A lot of corrected grain leather has a layer of polyurethane or some similar...very flexible, very impervious...material bonded to the grain. If the plastic coating doesn't crack there will be no cracks in the leather. Do Crocs crack out? Swimms? If so, it is usually over a very long time period and due more to damage from ultra violet rays than anything else.

And yes, corrected grain shoes are hot and occlusive and the people wearing them somewhat more apt to have foot problems.

--

I had CG leather shoes while in high school (by mistake) which cracked premature on me, yet it looked like creases so I never know. During that rainy season when I walked home one rainy afternoon, I stepped into a large puddle of water on the road, and my oh my - severe case of wet feet for the day. Heck, I even got sick and had to take the whole week off. 

 

My experience, then, was that CG may look attractive, may repel water as good as rubber, but once it even "looked" like its cracked, you just gotta let it go and never even look back at it, and I guess that was one of the most painful experience I have with CG.

post #11834 of 19058

I know this is a bit outside the norm here, but I figured you guys could help.  I have a pair of Margiela GAT sneakers that were originally a white/cream camel leather.  Over time these have yellowed a ton, possibly due to the sun, wear, oxidation, etc.  What's the best way to get these back to their original state or at least a uniform white color?  I was thinking Saphir recolorant or even a Fiebings white dye.  I had previously used oxalic acid (which has been recommended for bleaching leather) without success.

post #11835 of 19058
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Let's discuss this theory that wax polish "chokes" the leather out. At the same time I think wax polish actually slows down, or inhibits the evaporation of the fat liquors and oils in the leather. Think about it. Corrected grain shoes don't crack very easily. I see so many people with corrected grain shoes beat to shit with no cracking. My idea is that the finishing keeps the oils and such inside the leather rather than easily evaporating. So, if you are only conditioning your shoes once in a while and just applying a bit of wax routinely it somewhat means that the wax is slowing down the leeching out of the oils.

From the readings and the hands on experience I've gathered, yes, wax is the sealant to seal the oils and greases from being evaporated, and thus retains a suitable amount of moisture for a period of time within the leather. But at the other hand, I have my suspicion that when the wax itself is drying out, the oils and grease have to feed the wax, and thus, returns to nothing. 

 

That said, without wax, oils and grease would evaporate away anyway, so, some sealant won't matter, but too much would be too horrible.

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