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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 756

post #11326 of 19058
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyWellSpent View Post
 

 

This is not worrisome, it is normal.  Adding wax polish over the top of your cream will make the water bead up more effectively, if you so desire.  Allen Edmonds does make wax polish: http://www.allenedmonds.com/aeonline/producti_SF652_1_40000000001_-1

I will vouch that Allen Edmonds Carnauba wax polish, in neutral, is really quite excellent.  Very hard like a bar of soap.  Just a dab and a drop of water is all that is needed. Better than Saphir Pate de Luxe.  Will try to find some Saphir MDO soon to compare.

post #11327 of 19058
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post
 

Yeah I guess you have a point there Ben. But, I don't really know. Chances are that it will dries smooth calf out really fast because smooth side required more lubricant to flex, whilst flesh side actually need to remain dry and being nicely separated (hence the nap).

 

And furthermore, it's OK if there is any linguistic difficulties - we'll always help ya ll the best we could.

 

Always happy to talk and learn from friends around the globe!!! :cheers:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post
 

 I have probably suggested on here, ad nauseam, that I am allergic to turpentine. Having found GlenKaren products, I can now start to clean my shoes without respiratory problems. Can anyone  assure me, beyond reasonable doubt, that Renovator does not contain turpentine? I have put all my other Saphir products out of reach but I would like to hang on to this one. Renovator does seem to smell of turps and opinion, on here, seems to be divided. Does anyone have the definitive view on this? Yours, as always, Munky.

My good friend i have some news about it!!! i have sent an email to Avel about a year ago from one of my email accounts and i have seen about a week ago the responce!!( i havent checked that email account for a long long time)!! i had asked them about the turpentine issue  and i claimed that i have an allergie so to take a responce!! the answer was " dear sir you wont have any problem with your allergie" so i think we know now what we wanted to know!!:happy:

post #11328 of 19058
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDeKelver View Post
 

I will vouch that Allen Edmonds Carnauba wax polish, in neutral, is really quite excellent.  Very hard like a bar of soap.  Just a dab and a drop of water is all that is needed. Better than Saphir Pate de Luxe.  Will try to find some Saphir MDO soon to compare.

i agree its a very good product!! gives a nice shine!!(a lot harder than saphir in consistency even from the MDO)!  according to mirror shine in few words " it brakes your balls " to build up!! hahahah

post #11329 of 19058
Some of whats being reported here is precisely why I recommend cream polishes over wax.
High-grade skins are not tanned to look like mirrors. They are tanned and should be maintained to reflect the integrity and beauty of the skin itself. A high gloss shine, to me, cheapens a skin that you paid a lot for to look like what it is meant to look like. Of course this is a cosmetic issue and just my opinion.

Cream polishes and conditioners penetrate deeper into the pores and nourishes the leather leaving it with a healthy, well fed (maintained) look. We all know that when using wax on a regular basis every so often the wax has to be stripped off, the pores exposed and, conditioners applied. Why? Because the wax builds up and seals the pores suffocating the skin not allowing it to breathe.

So, ask yourself after the wax builds up and seals the pores what is it that is really shining? Is it the leather? IMO it's the wax that's shining. So, how can that be healthy for the leather? It's like waxing a car. The more coats properly applied the higher the gloss. But, that's not the paint glowing it's the wax. If you take it a step further.....What's happening to the liner of the shoe?

If you sealed the uppers with wax that prohibits the liners to function as intended. Your perspiration is absorbed in part by the liners. If the upper leather is able to breathe it will help release some of the moisture. If it's sealed by wax the liners will wick the perspiration only to be repelled back to the inside of the upper leather and into the liners.
This is why an upper and -or- lining is more likely to crack or rot using wax rather than cream polish. Add to that the problems you my incur stripping the built up wax.
post #11330 of 19058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post


Because the wax builds up and seals the pores suffocating the skin not allowing it to breathe.
If you take it a step further.....What's happening to the liner of the shoe?

If you sealed the uppers with wax that prohibits the liners to function as intended. Your perspiration is absorbed in part by the liners. If the upper leather is able to breathe it will help release some of the moisture. If it's sealed by wax the liners will wick the perspiration only to be repelled back to the inside of the upper leather and into the liners.
This is why an upper and -or- lining is more likely to crack or rot using wax rather than cream polish.

Good points--what you're talking about is the wax occluding the leather...suffocating it. But the arguments that you just got done making are equally valid and good with regard to the occlusive, suffocating properties of rubber outsoles, Topy, and foam or neoprene insoles.
post #11331 of 19058

I own a pair of AE boots in football grain leather. A friend gave me a couple bottles of Cole Haan leather conditioner (nothing special I know) and a couple bottles of Shinola shoe cream (brown and neutral) as well as a tin of mink oil. Which of these should I use to maintain the leather on the boots? I don't want to use things in conjunction and accidentally mess up the leather. 

post #11332 of 19058
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Good points--what you're talking about is the wax occluding the leather...suffocating it. But the arguments that you just got done making are equally valid and good with regard to the occlusive, suffocating properties of rubber outsoles, Topy, and foam or neoprene insoles.

Sorry but I disagree. Compare the thickness and breathe-ability of the insole to lining and upper leather. Add that the foot bed generally is comprised of cork and rubber cement. That in itself hampers the ability to breathe. And, that is why moisture won't leak through the bottom of the soles on a rainy day. I've used this example before....Take a cork food bed mixed with rubber cement and submerge it under water overnight. Cut it in half the next day. You will find that inside the middle of the foot bed is dry. So, how much air circulates through the foot bed let alone the ticker insole and even more dense high quality out-sole? Add to that that if the shoe was built with a full sock liner, chances are that to was cemented in with rubber cement. So I never subscribed to the theory that shoes have the ability to breathe through their soles.

Out of respect of this forum I will not comment any further on your challenges regarding this topic. The dust-ups are predictable and old.

I will say however, I don't use sole guards on my high-grades. I can always get them re-crafted at no cost. That's not to say that there are several advantages for a paying customer (using any reputable shop) to have them installed. Added, I have never seen that sole guards have ever contributed to the premature death of a shoe.
post #11333 of 19058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post

Very good products. We use them all the time w/o probs. Something is a bit strange here. What type of skin are your shoes made of?
And the original finish?

These are full grain calf skin shoes. And just regular finish.

Other than just giving the shoe time to dry from the application of Renomat and Glen Karen cleaner is there anything else I should be doing?

Thanks to all the posters who have shared their insights.
post #11334 of 19058
Quote:
Originally Posted by seahawks506 View Post

I own a pair of AE boots in football grain leather. A friend gave me a couple bottles of Cole Haan leather conditioner (nothing special I know) and a couple bottles of Shinola shoe cream (brown and neutral) as well as a tin of mink oil. Which of these should I use to maintain the leather on the boots? I don't want to use things in conjunction and accidentally mess up the leather. 

Very cool looking skin. Definitely DON'T use the mink oil. Creams and conditioners as long as they are not oil based.
post #11335 of 19058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poshak Man View Post

These are full grain calf skin shoes. And just regular finish.

Other than just giving the shoe time to dry from the application of Renomat and Glen Karen cleaner is there anything else I should be doing?

Thanks to all the posters who have shared their insights.

Pic?
post #11336 of 19058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post

Sorry but I disagree. Compare the thickness and breathe-ability of the insole to lining and upper leather. Add that the foot bed generally is comprised of cork and rubber cement. That in itself hampers the ability to breathe. And, that is why moisture won't leak through the bottom of the soles on a rainy day. I've used this example before....Take a cork food bed mixed with rubber cement and submerge it under water overnight. Cut it in half the next day. You will find that inside the middle of the foot bed is dry. So, how much air circulates through the foot bed let alone the ticker insole and even more dense high quality out-sole? Add to that that if the shoe was built with a full sock liner, chances are that to was cemented in with rubber cement. So I never subscribed to the theory that shoes have the ability to breathe through their soles.

Out of respect of this forum I will not comment any further on your challenges regarding this topic. The dust-ups are predictable and old.

I will say however, I don't use sole guards on my high-grades. I can always get them re-crafted at no cost. That's not to say that there are several advantages for a paying customer (using any reputable shop) to have them installed. Added, I have never seen that sole guards have ever contributed to the premature death of a shoe.

If you had a base of knowledge that real, actual, practical, hands-on experience confers, you'd understand the principles and the connections. And understanding the connections, you'd see that just because you want to draw distinctions in your own mind, doesn't mean that the leather will accommodate you. Either the principles of occlusion and suffocation apply or they don't. Period. They don't change just because you want them to.

You can disagree all you want but it's still magical thinking.

And FWIW, if you if you don't want your spurious, unfounded comments challenged, don't make them. That's where real "respect for the the forum" begins and ends. As I have pointed out almost every respected bespoke maker...now and in the past...has understood that leather shoes breath--wick moisture away from the foot--and that rubber soles are occlusive--preventing that breathability. Only those who have no real knowledge of leather and the way all the components of a shoe work together, believe otherwise.

Whether it's an acceptable price to pay for whatever imagined reality you hope for, is another question altogether.
post #11337 of 19058
You see? Here we go again.....Moderator, maybe you care to PM us again. Who's picking the fight?
I don't care to partake. Last word doesn't matter to me. Just willing to share my experience and knowledge.
Not to be a self anointed know-it-all. I'll wait to hear from you. WADR.
post #11338 of 19058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post

You see? Here we go again.....Moderator, maybe you care to PM us again. Who's picking the fight?
I don't care to partake. Last word doesn't matter to me. Just willing to share my experience and knowledge.
Not to be a self anointed know-it-all. I'll wait to hear from you. WADR.

If you weren't picking a fight all you had to say is that you disagree. You didn't have to post explanations...challenges actually...that have no basis in reality or that fly in the face of knowledge gained over centuries of hands-on experience.

All you had to do was say you disagreed and leave it at that. You didn't need to include the bit about challenges or predictability. Or the contradictory "walking back" of your conclusions about leather suffocating.

It's worth noting that your remarks are predictable too--predictable for their lack of authenticity and willingness to make assertions that can not stand up to close scrutiny and then take offense when someone seeks to introduce a little reality. This is a discussion forum...disagreements are inevitable and commonplace esp. when folks make statements that are contradictory and unsupportable.

If you don't have the hands-on experience of a shoemaker, why do you insist on pretending you have the knowledge? If you don't have the hands-on experience of a shoe repairman why do you pretend that you know what you're talking about? If all your "knowledge" comes from outside sources--advertising, sales reps, hearsay, and the opinions of others, what do you really know?

Talk about what you know.
post #11339 of 19058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post


Sorry but I disagree. Compare the thickness and breathe-ability of the insole to lining and upper leather. Add that the foot bed generally is comprised of cork and rubber cement. That in itself hampers the ability to breathe. And, that is why moisture won't leak through the bottom of the soles on a rainy day. I've used this example before....Take a cork food bed mixed with rubber cement and submerge it under water overnight. Cut it in half the next day. You will find that inside the middle of the foot bed is dry. So, how much air circulates through the foot bed let alone the ticker insole and even more dense high quality out-sole? Add to that that if the shoe was built with a full sock liner, chances are that to was cemented in with rubber cement. So I never subscribed to the theory that shoes have the ability to breathe through their soles.

Out of respect of this forum I will not comment any further on your challenges regarding this topic. The dust-ups are predictable and old.

I will say however, I don't use sole guards on my high-grades. I can always get them re-crafted at no cost. That's not to say that there are several advantages for a paying customer (using any reputable shop) to have them installed. Added, I have never seen that sole guards have ever contributed to the premature death of a shoe.


You must also consider that the sweat from your foot is largely in a vapourous state. When water is a vapour it will pass through the pores of the leather much more easily. So the submerging a cork innersole comparison is not very relevant. Just think of gore-tex, it is tested by submerging it in water for 24 hours, and it does not leak, yet the tiny pores in gore-tex allow water vapour to pass through quite easily. Just my 2¢.

post #11340 of 19058
Quote:
Originally Posted by AAJJLLPP View Post


You must also consider that the sweat from your foot is largely in a vapourous state. When water is a vapour it will pass through the pores of the leather much more easily. So the submerging a cork innersole comparison is not very relevant. Just think of gore-tex, it is tested by submerging it in water for 24 hours, and it does not leak, yet the tiny pores in gore-tex allow water vapour to pass through quite easily. Just my 2¢.

It's also worth noting that only some footbeds...those constructed with cork and all-purpose cement...will remain dry. Not all footwear is made like that. [Parenthetically...the cork and the rubber cement is not the footbed. The indentations and contouring (if any) of the insole is the footbed.]

Leather insoles and leather outsoles do breath. Do wick moisture away from the foot and contribute to foot...and shoe health. So, if you're gonna talk about waxes suffocating the leather...thickness doesn't count--occlusive is occlusive. Rubber cement is made from rubber. All-Purpose cement is made from synthetic rubbers such as neoprene. If rubber cement prevents the insole from wicking the leather away from the foot, a rubber outsole or a neoprene insole will surely do the same thing.

I also think that when a material such as a leather insole gets saturated...perhaps because rubber cement or a rubber outsole prevents transport, more moisture will simply accumulate next to the foot. Most of that internal moisture is fundamentally salt water. It is a prime suspect in the deterioration of the leather.

--
Edited by DWFII - 10/28/14 at 5:40am
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