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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 749

post #11221 of 19079
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


I think that's right and I sympathize. It's what Asimov was implying--just because you can or have the right, doesn't mean that it is correct...or even seemly...to do so.

But, hey, without putting up much of what I thought, I would have never gained as much. Observation is great, yet I think too passive makes one rather a door blocker of some sort.

 

Well, I learned much about shoe care, thanks to this thread, and broader, to this forum, and even narrower, from you and pB. Yet, what I decide to put on my leather shoes, is a different story - that comes my own conclusion that 10% knowledge and 90% test, results and your own regimen that I uploaded not long ago, which, the phrase was partially agreed by pB.

 

I hope somehow we had little bit of agreement in what I just blurbed out so violently...

post #11222 of 19079

Fair enough, Travers, I was a bit abrupt there and- in line with what Sushi was saying- I don't have the right to suggest that people stop posting. I apologise for any hurt feelings. I still think, though, that we can all, quietly, listen to people of very considerable experience and that is what we get here. 

post #11223 of 19079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post
 

Fair enough, Travers, I was a bit abrupt there and- in line with what Sushi was saying- I don't have the right to suggest that people stop posting. I apologise for any hurt feelings. I still think, though, that we can all, quietly, listen to people of very considerable experience and that is what we get here. 

Apologies unnecessary, Munky, though I take it that you are, in fact, a very noble gentleman - HATS OFF!!!

 

Yup, listening is a great skill. That's why we are all here.

post #11224 of 19079

Wait, to stir it up a bit, anybody here own footwear made of waxed calf? The kind of reversed calf heavily waxed. I'm fairly interested in seeing how people care for these. 

 

DW, I have a pair of roughout boots I would love to wax them. Several attempts were futile as they remain greasy and became dirt magnet. Any different ways? I used to hear stories of veterans even able to shine their heavily dubbed roughout boots.

post #11225 of 19079
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post

But, hey, without putting up much of what I thought, I would have never gained as much. Observation is great, yet I think too passive makes one rather a door blocker of some sort.

Well, I learned much about shoe care, thanks to this thread, and broader, to this forum, and even narrower, from you and pB. Yet, what I decide to put on my leather shoes, is a different story - that comes my own conclusion that 10% knowledge and 90% test, results and your own regimen that I uploaded not long ago, which, the phrase was partially agreed by pB.

I hope somehow we had little bit of agreement in what I just blurbed out so violently...

Just to be clear, nothing I said was referencing you or your posts...for whatever that's worth.

But I've been here a while and I've seen and had run-ins with people such as Sushi referred to. I don't begrudge anyone their opinion or even their right to disagree with me. But I do begrudge people who are unwilling to do the work necessary to become knowledgeable, dismissing or disrespectfully challenging what I have earned.

Or, especially, pretending to a level of expertise that they have not earned.

So, again...I was just riffing on a theme.

--
Edited by DWFII - 10/20/14 at 2:16pm
post #11226 of 19079
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post

Wait, to stir it up a bit, anybody here own footwear made of waxed calf? The kind of reversed calf heavily waxed. I'm fairly interested in seeing how people care for these. 

DW, I have a pair of roughout boots I would love to wax them. Several attempts were futile as they remain greasy and became dirt magnet. Any different ways? I used to hear stories of veterans even able to shine their heavily dubbed roughout boots.

Traditionally such leathers were stuffed with fish oil and lanolin and then left in a warm room for up to a year. When that time was over the oils would have gelled similarly to the way linseed oil gels outside the can. So they weren't especially greasy.

Then the flesh side of the leather was scrubbed with a mixture of lye soap (fels naptha is a good facsimile) and chimney soot. This blackened the leather and drove the colour into the fibers. .

Then, after the boots were made, the leather was painted with a mixture of water and flour (dry wallpaper paste works) and burnished to a high shine--almost a spit shine in intensity.

After that wax was all that was needed although sometimes the chimney black and the sizing were re-applied.

I have no idea how you would treat your boots if they were not made as I have just described.

Waxed calf full wellington--the tan part is the grainside of the same hide. I did not do a very good job of burnishing the flesh side.

post #11227 of 19079
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


Just to be clear, nothing I said was referencing you or your posts...for whatever that's worth.

But I've been here a while and I've seen and had run-ins with people such as Sushi referred to. I don't begrudge anyone their opinion or even their right to disagree with me. But I do begrudge people who are unwilling to do the work necessary to become knowledgeable, dismissing or disrespectfully challenging what I have earned.

Or, especially, pretending to a level of expertise that they have not earned.

So, again...I was just riffing on a theme.

FWIW, DW, we had great talks about how you made your waxed calf (of which I am fairly interested on doing that to my roughout boots) and Russian leather.

 

Furthermore, many of my knowledges were also from your posts. Remember, I stalked you guys long enough before swallow my guts and join :D

post #11228 of 19079
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


Traditionally such leathers were stuffed with fish oil and lanolin and then left in a warm room for up to a year. When that time was over the oils would have gelled similarly to the way linseed oil gels outside the can. So they weren't especially greasy.

Then the flesh side of the leather was scrubbed with a mixture of lye soap (fels naptha is a good facsimile) and chimney soot. This blackened the leather and drove the colour into the fibers. .

Then, after the boots were made, the leather was painted with a mixture of water and flour (dry wallpaper paste works) and burnished to a high shine--almost a spit shine in intensity.

After that wax was all that was needed although sometimes the chimney black and the sizing were re-applied.

I have no idea how you would treat your boots if they were not made as I have just described.

Waxed calf full wellington--the tan part is the grainside of the same hide. I did not do a very good job of burnishing the flesh side.

Nice boots! Very well made.

 

The boots I'm talking about is a pair of roughout M1951 combat boots I received from a venerable Marine Corps vet whom served from the late 50s to early 60s. They are in roughout leather and had not been done much to them. I wear them with pride on hikes and other occasions where rugged footwear is necessary. Hard to believe something made from '61 is still kicking as hard.

 

Would love to give the method above a try. I'll keep you posted.

post #11229 of 19079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post
 

Fair enough, Travers, I was a bit abrupt there and- in line with what Sushi was saying- I don't have the right to suggest that people stop posting. I apologise for any hurt feelings. I still think, though, that we can all, quietly, listen to people of very considerable experience and that is what we get here. 


I don't disagree that listening is a very useful tool. But sometimes expressing oneself and discussing with others may be an even better tool for understanding. But that's assuming this person is willing to learn and acknowledges that their knowledge may be or is not entirely correct or true. Too bad these kinds of people are an endangered species...

post #11230 of 19079
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Quoted from the leather quality thread..
People in this thread who are unsure about what product to use and what this chemical or that conditioner / cream / polish / cleaner will do to their shoes ought to read all the posts in Glen's blog.

I am a shoemaker, not a chemist, but I was struck by how much my practical, decades long experiences at the bench agrees with Glen's deep and thorough research. February and March of 2013 seemed pertinent to me, as well as August of 2013.

Frankly, Glen and pB are probably the most knowledgeable people with regard to shoe care on all of SF. And for those wanting to know how to deal with new shoes, old shoes, shell, most leathers, etc., you can't find more authentic and authoritative information anywhere.

--

Thank you so much for the accolades DW, I really appreciate the recognition.

I try to share what I believe I know, and I am always trying to learn more. It is part of my nature, and my vocation, to research and try to comprehend any number of topics. I'm sure this forum, and it's many knowledgeable members, offers me more insight than I am able to give back, but I try when I can.
post #11231 of 19079
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post

But, hey, without putting up much of what I thought, I would have never gained as much. Observation is great, yet I think too passive makes one rather a door blocker of some sort.

Well, I learned much about shoe care, thanks to this thread, and broader, to this forum, and even narrower, from you and pB. Yet, what I decide to put on my leather shoes, is a different story - that comes my own conclusion that 10% knowledge and 90% test, results and your own regimen that I uploaded not long ago, which, the phrase was partially agreed by pB.

I hope somehow we had little bit of agreement in what I just blurbed out so violently...

The thing is the "testing" phase is very long. I think a lot of people come onto this forum as relative newbies to shoe care and their "testing" is based on using a pushed product for a year, or so. I would put money on it that most people on this forum who have "tested" a lot of highly regarded shoe care products haven't even been using it for 5 years. Unless you have a decade or more of testing holding certain factors constant testing isn't really worth much. The facts of science, however, are and when such experiments cannot be done at the moment while having so many variables controlled for I'd much rather lean on science and logic than marketing and hype.
Edited by patrickBOOTH - 10/20/14 at 3:51pm
post #11232 of 19079
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post


The thing is the "testing" phase is very long. I think a lot of people come onto this forum as relative newbies to shoe care and their "testing" is based on using a pushed product for a year, or so. I would put money on it that most people on this forum who have "tested" a lot of highly regarded shoe care products haven't even been using it for 5 years. Unless you have a decade or more of testing holding certain factors constant testing isn't really worth much. The facts of science, however are and when such experiments cannot be done at the moment while having so many variables controlled for I'd much rather lean on science and logic than marketing and hype.

Testing could take a up to a lifetime. Yet, to be honest with you, Pat, I would say that they worth every single seconds and minutes. 

post #11233 of 19079
You do know we are talking about shoes, right?
post #11234 of 19079
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

You do know we are talking about shoes, right?

Of course I do, Pat. What the hell else could we all be talking about LOL!!???

post #11235 of 19079

Pat, Saphir MDO was developed during the 1920s, and still, we are still testing them, to see if they fit the title "Gold Medal" they labelled themselves. 

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