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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 747

post #11191 of 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

I'd advise against using it at all...

Why? Because of the greasy-phobia thing that happened to come true many times?

post #11192 of 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

I'd advise against using it at all...
Why is that?

Where I live it rains five days a week from now until mid March so I need waterproof boots.
post #11193 of 19072
It just chokes out the leather. If it rains a lot where you live (as it does where I live) I just have separate shoes I wear in the rain vs. the sun. I think choking out the leather is equally as bad as simply wearing your shoes in the rain naked. If you want water repellant shoes, get rain boots, or get shoes made from a leather whose tannage was designed for it, such as a hot stuffed tannage like chromexcel.
post #11194 of 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post

Anyway, why don't we come back to shoes? Anybody got experience with the Saphir Beauté du Cuir Greasy Cream? I know I used it on calfskin shoes to a great effect.

Does that work on Alden's Kudu leather?
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post

Bath the upper lightly with clean, warm water, then brush the surface with a shoe brush. Once the leather is dry and warm, apply a light coat of the stuff to the upper, brush a coat to the welt seams, get it on the tongue... remember to rub it in really well, then let it sit and absorb for, preferably, 12 hours to overnite. Once it is all dry, get a clean brush and brush the surface off. You're basically done by then.

Alternatively, for the next aplication, get Montana Pitch Blend or Saphir Graisse for better penetration and absorption, in case this stuff - Burgol Piz - is too thick.

Is the point of the warm water simply to heat up the leather? Wouldn't a hair dryer be more easy and affective?
post #11195 of 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odd I/O View Post


Does that work on Alden's Kudu leather?
Is the point of the warm water simply to heat up the leather? Wouldn't a hair dryer be more easy and affective?

OK. Point No.:1 - Yes, it works wonderful on Kudu. Just remember to let it dry off sufficiently.

 

Point No.:2 - Nope, that's not the point. The point is to open the leather's pores via water, so that when the grease is absorbed, it will not clog the pores. Heating the leather then slather the grease on it will draw the hot grease straight deep into the leather, which in turns, when the leather cool down, the grease will be solid, and thus will prevent proper distribution of the grease via wear, and as well prevent the leather from air circulation.

post #11196 of 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

It just chokes out the leather. If it rains a lot where you live (as it does where I live) I just have separate shoes I wear in the rain vs. the sun. I think choking out the leather is equally as bad as simply wearing your shoes in the rain naked. If you want water repellant shoes, get rain boots, or get shoes made from a leather whose tannage was designed for it, such as a hot stuffed tannage like chromexcel.

Here is where the warm water, not the hair dryer, works wonder - the warm water will allow the slight expansion of the fibers, thus enlarge the pores by little. When grease is applied lightly, it will absorb well into the leather, and will form what I would note as a temporary seal. As the leather fully absorbs the grease, the matte, coarse finish left behind can be buffed up to a smooth finish, and when the leather is flexed via wear, the grease is thus properly distributed, and the sealing effect mentioned above will be broken, allows air circulation.

 

Extreme heat on leather is already bad. Extreme heat AND grease on leather is the worst.

post #11197 of 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post

Here is where the warm water, not the hair dryer, works wonder - the warm water will allow the slight expansion of the fibers, thus enlarge the pores by little. When grease is applied lightly, it will absorb well into the leather, and will form what I would note as a temporary seal. As the leather fully absorbs the grease, the matte, coarse finish left behind can be buffed up to a smooth finish, and when the leather is flexed via wear, the grease is thus properly distributed, and the sealing effect mentioned above will be broken, allows air circulation.

Extreme heat on leather is already bad. Extreme heat AND grease on leather is the worst.

"Extreme" being the significant word there. But I don't believe in the warm water (or any kind of water) concept, either. Oils and greases are hydrophobic. And worse, all fats tend to suffocate leather. If applied too often or too liberally they build up and create their own set of problems.

The thing about all of this is that everybody has theories. Everybody has their favourite regimens and their favourite products. But over a wide range of conditions and over a wide range of leathers and over a fair span of time...most all of them just seem to end up being local biases and not really universal "truths."

And again, this is especially true of leather care products. Everything that we apply to leather is "after-the-fact" and "beside-the-point." Leather is properly tanned and fat liquored or it is not. Nothing we can do will augment or detract from that process.

And, FWIW, the old 19th century waxed calf was hot stuffed right from the caldron with a mixture of fish oil and lanolin. It wasn't boiling...that would be extreme...but, arguably, it was hot. And on vegetable tanned leather which is far more vulnerable to heat than chrome tannages. i know this because I have made my own using an authentic 19th century recipe.
post #11198 of 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


"Extreme" being the significant word there. But I don't believe in the warm water (or any kind of water) concept, either. Oils and greases are hydrophobic. And worse, all fats tend to suffocate leather. If applied too often or too liberally they build up and create their own set of problems.

The thing about all of this is that everybody has theories. Everybody has their favourite regimens and their favourite products. But over a wide range of conditions and over a wide range of leathers and over a fair span of time...most all of them just seem to end up being local biases and not really universal "truths."

And again, this is especially true of leather care products. Everything that we apply to leather is "after-the-fact" and "beside-the-point." Leather is properly tanned and fat liquored or it is not. Nothing we can do will augment or detract from that process.

And, FWIW, the old 19th century waxed calf was hot stuffed right from the caldron with a mixture of fish oil and lanolin. It wasn't boiling...that would be extreme...but, arguably, it was hot. And on vegetable tanned leather which is far more vulnerable to heat than chrome tannages. i know this because I have made my own using an authentic 19th century recipe.

I guess you just made your points... Wait... For the waxed calf you were talking about, was the grease just warm to the touch, or so hot that handling would've taken more care than none?

post #11199 of 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post

I guess you just made your points... Wait... For the waxed calf you were talking about, was the grease just warm to the touch, or so hot that handling would've taken more care than none?

As I said, it wasn't boiling but it was warmer than just "warm to the touch." If it's too cool the stuffing will harden upon contact with the relatively cooler leather and not be absorbed. Too hot and, yes it will damage the leather. And yes again, oil holds heat better than water.

My hands could probably withstand heat better than a lot of other people's and my daughter, who is a chef, can grab sizzling hot food off the grill that would hurt me.

The point is that "too hot" or "extreme heat" is often relative.
post #11200 of 19072

Having, last night, polished my shoes with turpentine based products, I have rediscovered my allergy to turps, with fairly unpleasant circumstances. I have just ordered a range of GlenKaren products, from a company in Sweden and hope that these will solve future polishing issues. Not cheap, though, in Europe!  From what I have read on here, they will be worth it. 

post #11201 of 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post
 

Having, last night, polished my shoes with turpentine based products, I have rediscovered my allergy to turps, with fairly unpleasant circumstances. I have just ordered a range of GlenKaren products, from a company in Sweden and hope that these will solve future polishing issues. Not cheap, though, in Europe!  From what I have read on here, they will be worth it. 

Absolutely worth it. Although I am not particularly allergic to turps, my mother is annoyed by the smell. I used Glen Karen once and she was like "Son, that shit worth bucks after bucks". Even though I 'm still using Saphir I would consider Glen Karen as a possible replacement.

 

Greater news for all of you, Glen just released his water resistant cream, and for fall and winter, that just made him Santa Claus :D

post #11202 of 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post
 

Greater news for all of you, Glen just released his water resistant cream, and for fall and winter, that just made him Santa Claus :D

 

Just looked up the water resistant cream. He links to this on his website http://oldleathershoe.com/wordpress/?p=1476 . Its an interesting read, the cream water proofs the shoes without relying on heavy oils, waxes, or silicone. Instead uses sodium bentonite which absorbs many times its weight in water and expands to repel the water, later returning to it's original state after it dries. I did a bit more research on the sodium bentonite, one source stated that bentonite clay they were selling has a pH of 9-10 (http://www.holisticvalley.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/SDS-Wyoming-Sodium-Bentonite.pdf),which is high for a leather product. However it did state that it was insoluble in water in which case it cannot have a pH, that said everything is soluble to some degree, not sure if the amount of solubility it has would make the effects on leather negligible though. Lastly multiple sources said that it is very slippery when wet, so it might be best to avoid putting it on your soles. All in all though it seems like a clever approach to water proofing and could make a fantastic product.

post #11203 of 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by AAJJLLPP View Post
 

 

Just looked up the water resistant cream. He links to this on his website http://oldleathershoe.com/wordpress/?p=1476 . Its an interesting read, the cream water proofs the shoes without relying on heavy oils, waxes, or silicone. Instead uses sodium bentonite which absorbs many times its weight in water and expands to repel the water, later returning to it's original state after it dries. I did a bit more research on the sodium bentonite, one source stated that bentonite clay they were selling has a pH of 9-10 (http://www.holisticvalley.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/SDS-Wyoming-Sodium-Bentonite.pdf),which is high for a leather product. However it did state that it was insoluble in water in which case it cannot have a pH, that said everything is soluble to some degree, not sure if the amount of solubility it has would make the effects on leather negligible though. Lastly multiple sources said that it is very slippery when wet, so it might be best to avoid putting it on your soles. All in all though it seems like a clever approach to water proofing and could make a fantastic product.

I'll give it a try to see how it goes.

post #11204 of 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by AAJJLLPP View Post

Just looked up the water resistant cream. He links to this on his website http://oldleathershoe.com/wordpress/?p=1476 . Its an interesting read, the cream water proofs the shoes without relying on heavy oils, waxes, or silicone. Instead uses sodium bentonite which absorbs many times its weight in water and expands to repel the water, later returning to it's original state after it dries. I did a bit more research on the sodium bentonite, one source stated that bentonite clay they were selling has a pH of 9-10 (http://www.holisticvalley.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/SDS-Wyoming-Sodium-Bentonite.pdf),which is high for a leather product. However it did state that it was insoluble in water in which case it cannot have a pH, that said everything is soluble to some degree, not sure if the amount of solubility it has would make the effects on leather negligible though. Lastly multiple sources said that it is very slippery when wet, so it might be best to avoid putting it on your soles. All in all though it seems like a clever approach to water proofing and could make a fantastic product.

The water resistant polish has a pH value of 6.0. The regular GlenKaren polish has a pH of 5.5.
post #11205 of 19072
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenjay View Post


The water resistant polish has a pH value of 6.0. The regular GlenKaren polish has a pH of 5.5.

Need not to worry, Glen. Leather itself wasn't with a stable pH anyway... 

 

I just ordered the cream last night. I'll give a review.

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