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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 728

post #10906 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by traverscao View Post
 

I thought they did. Well, what's the solvent for Réno then?


I think mink oil, but based on its slight cleaning properties (renovateur), I would guess there's some lighter (shorter-chain) naptha in there as well

post #10907 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepyinsanfran View Post


I think mink oil, but based on its slight cleaning properties (renovateur), I would guess there's some lighter (shorter-chain) naptha in there as well

I don't know about naptha, but it smells like highly purified turpentine. Furthermore, it doesn't seems to destroy shoes.
post #10908 of 19038

Exactly a year ago I bought two pairs of shoes from a Church's store, both cap toe oxfords, one in burgundy and one in shiny black. I use them both regularly to go to the office. I take good care of them as I do with all my shoes, I bought Church’s pulish, Church’s shoe trees, and I never wear them for anything other than going to the office no more than once a week (I rotate 5 pairs of shoes equally to go to the office). Yet the black shoe’s soles have worn to the point of almost breaking open.

 

I moved to the UK from Malta as I changed jobs. I never needed formal shoes before, so I have five pairs of shoes including two Carmina’s, two Church’s, and a pair of Loakes (a brand I considered inferior to Church's until now). All worn evenly in rotation for a year. And therefore all worn by the same person in the same way approximately 50-60 times. Well, this pair of shoes is the only one in this condition (see pictures). I wasn’t expecting to have to resole any of these pairs so soon. And I am utterly disappointed to say the least.

 

Could you confirm whether this the normal quality standard of Church's shoes? Is resoling after one year the norm? And if so, what´s the procedure and cost to resole shoes? I've tried contacting their customer services but their response has been basically "take better care of your shoes" and bring them back to the shop along with the receipt and let's see what the manager says...

 

 

 

The first day I wore my first pair of Carmina's it started to rain, the floor was slippery, the shoes got wet, and I had an accident with a car. One of the shoes ripped on the side and, as advised by someone in the forum, I wrote asking how much would it cost to get the pair repaired. They asked me to send them to the factory, repaired them free of charge, and sent them back looking like new in a matter of two weeks. It was the most amazing customer service experience I've had, and I decided to buy a second pair instead of the shoes I was planning to buy.

 

I'll be very careful with Church's going forward. I can't believe it's the norm. I probably got a faulty pair of shoes (I love the budgundy's and they've lasted being bought the same day). And a lousy customer service agent. But my experience has been awful.

post #10909 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by ML594806 View Post
 

Exactly a year ago I bought two pairs of shoes from a Church's store, both cap toe oxfords, one in burgundy and one in shiny black. I use them both regularly to go to the office. I take good care of them as I do with all my shoes, I bought Church’s pulish, Church’s shoe trees, and I never wear them for anything other than going to the office no more than once a week (I rotate 5 pairs of shoes equally to go to the office). Yet the black shoe’s soles have worn to the point of almost breaking open.

 

I moved to the UK from Malta as I changed jobs. I never needed formal shoes before, so I have five pairs of shoes including two Carmina’s, two Church’s, and a pair of Loakes (a brand I considered inferior to Church's until now). All worn evenly in rotation for a year. And therefore all worn by the same person in the same way approximately 50-60 times. Well, this pair of shoes is the only one in this condition (see pictures). I wasn’t expecting to have to resole any of these pairs so soon. And I am utterly disappointed to say the least.

 

Could you confirm whether this the normal quality standard of Church's shoes? Is resoling after one year the norm? And if so, what´s the procedure and cost to resole shoes? I've tried contacting their customer services but their response has been basically "take better care of your shoes" and bring them back to the shop along with the receipt and let's see what the manager says...

 

 

 

 

The first day I wore my first pair of Carmina's it started to rain, the floor was slippery, the shoes got wet, and I had an accident with a car. One of the shoes ripped on the side and, as advised by someone in the forum, I wrote asking how much would it cost to get the pair repaired. They asked me to send them to the factory, repaired them free of charge, and sent them back looking like new in a matter of two weeks. It was the most amazing customer service experience I've had, and I decided to buy a second pair instead of the shoes I was planning to buy.

 

I'll be very careful with Church's going forward. I can't believe it's the norm. I probably got a faulty pair of shoes (I love the budgundy's and they've lasted being bought the same day). And a lousy customer service agent. But my experience has been awful.

A strange tale indeed. Five pairs of shoes rotated, that you only wear once per week, and only one year old - that means you have not worn these Church's more than 11 times, and the soles are in such bad condition ! How to explain this ? It's certainly not my experience with Church's. Have you walked in the rain much - but even then only 11 times ............

post #10910 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelonius View Post
 

A strange tale indeed. Five pairs of shoes rotated, that you only wear once per week, and only one year old - that means you have not worn these Church's more than 11 times, and the soles are in such bad condition ! How to explain this ? It's certainly not my experience with Church's. Have you walked in the rain much - but even then only 11 times ............

 

Hi,

 

50 to 60 wears. Once per week for a year which has 52 weeks. Not sure of how you got to 11?

 

I live in London, so I do on occasion walk in the rain. Probably more often than many. But as I said, I have another pair of Church's which has kept in much better shape.

 

Out of curiosity, have you had to resole yours? If so, after how long?

post #10911 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by ML594806 View Post

[]Exactly a year ago I bought two pairs of shoes from a Church's store, both cap toe oxfords, one in burgundy and one in shiny black. I use them both regularly to go to the office. I take good care of them as I do with all my shoes, I bought Church’s pulish, Church’s shoe trees, and I never wear them for anything other than going to the office no more than once a week (I rotate 5 pairs of shoes equally to go to the office). Yet the black shoe’s soles have worn to the point of almost breaking open.

First, in a hide of soling leather there are only four or five pairs of prime, #1 outsoles...maybe six. But the manufacturers nevertheless take 18 or more pair out. So somebody gets the #2's and #3's.

Second, a policy of "let's see what the manager says" does not seem all that unreasonable to me. In the case of the Carmina's the upper ripped...am I right? Good on them for repairing them.

But in the case of the black shoe pictured, the soles are wearing out. That's what soles are there for. It's unreasonable to expect any maker to blithely accept that the sole wearing is somehow a defect. So much depends on you as to how fast the soles will wear out: how often you wear them, under what conditions, how heavily you wear them--some people, even obese people, can virtually walk on eggs while others tread like elephants. The maker has no control over any of that.

Third, it goes back to something I said in another thread--when the industry decides that it no longer needs, or can afford, high quality leather, the availability of high quality leather becomes scarce. Tanneries go out of business because demand goes down. Or they change their centuries old processes to "modernize," increase cash flow, and speed up production...all to the detriment of the quality. None of this is unexpected and will probably continue to get worse...across the board...long after the average customer loses interest and simply accepts the new paradigm--which will then change again...and again for the worse.

--
Edited by DWFII - 10/9/14 at 7:24am
post #10912 of 19038
Dude, you need toe taps, that's why. Also, needing a resole after a year is normal. That's basically my schedule.
post #10913 of 19038
Reno is water based. As far as I am aware only cheaper shoe polishes contain naphtha (kiwi and the like) Saphir polish uses turpentine in it's place.
post #10914 of 19038
FWIW, I worry less about solvents than I do petro-chemically based oils and rancid animal fats. Solvents evaporate and they are nearly essentially to wax polishes--the kind you bull the toes with. However, I wouldn't use solvent based polishes on the whole shoe with any regularity, in any case.
post #10915 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by ML594806 View Post
 

 

Hi,

 

50 to 60 wears. Once per week for a year which has 52 weeks. Not sure of how you got to 11?

 

I live in London, so I do on occasion walk in the rain. Probably more often than many. But as I said, I have another pair of Church's which has kept in much better shape.

 

Out of curiosity, have you had to resole yours? If so, after how long?


I understood you were only going in to work once a week. There's a lot of remote working these days so it's not so rediculous. If it's been 60 times then I guess that's how it is, as the others have said. But your story suggests that Carmina (and Loake - seems unlikely) uses better sole leather than Church's. What did Church's say - put stick-on rubber half soles on them ?

post #10916 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Reno is water based. As far as I am aware only cheaper shoe polishes contain naphtha (kiwi and the like) Saphir polish uses turpentine in it's place.

 



If Meltonian is out and Saphir contains turpentine, what's the SF-favorite for cream?

Don't suppose anyone's got experience with or knowledge of Red Wing's cream polish?
post #10917 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Reno is water based. As far as I am aware only cheaper shoe polishes contain naphtha (kiwi and the like) Saphir polish uses turpentine in it's place.

Thanks. Just the answer. 

post #10918 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

FWIW, I worry less about solvents than I do petro-chemically based oils and rancid animal fats. Solvents evaporate and they are nearly essentially to wax polishes--the kind you bull the toes with. However, I wouldn't use solvent based polishes on the whole shoe with any regularity, in any case.

DWFII, if beef tallows were mixed with something like an aromatic oil (cedar oil or what have you), would that be ideal? 

post #10919 of 19038

Gents, I treated my shell cordovan with grease, and I did not look back. Thoughts, comments, nut moments?

post #10920 of 19038
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


First, in a hide of soling leather there are only four or five pairs of prime, #1 outsoles...maybe six. But the manufacturers nevertheless take 18 or more pair out. So somebody gets the #2's and #3's.

Second, a policy of "let's see what the manager says" does not seem all that unreasonable to me. In the case of the Carmina's the upper ripped...am I right? Good on them for repairing them.

But in the case of the black shoe pictured, the soles are wearing out. That's what soles are there for. It's unreasonable to expect any maker to blithely accept that the sole wearing is somehow a defect. So much depends on you as to how fast the soles will wear out: how often you wear them, under what conditions, how heavily you wear them--some people, even obese people, can virtually walk on eggs while others tread like elephants. The maker has no control over any of that.

Third, it goes back to something I said in another thread--when the industry decides that it no longer needs, or can afford, high quality leather, the availability of high quality leather becomes scarce. Tanneries go out of business because demand goes down. Or they change their centuries old processes to "modernize," increase cash flow, and speed up production...all to the detriment of the quality. None of this is unexpected and will probably continue to get worse...across the board...long after the average customer loses interest and simply accepts the new paradigm--which will then change again...and again for the worse.

--

 

Very detailed answer, many thanks for that. I probably got the last of the #3s. To be honest what I found upsetting about the answer is the fact that I had explained how I care for my shoes, and they essentially copy pasted my e-mail back as advice (shoe trees, storing in a dry and ventilated place, alternating shoes, etc...). Also, I asked for information on how to get the shoes resoled and they didn't bother answering that question. I do understand the inevitable downturn in material quality some people call modernization. But I don't pay £350 for a pair of shoes made in England for it to last me the same as a cheap high street chain chinese pair. It defeats the purpose of aiming for quality.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelonius View Post
 


I understood you were only going in to work once a week. There's a lot of remote working these days so it's not so rediculous. If it's been 60 times then I guess that's how it is, as the others have said. But your story suggests that Carmina (and Loake - seems unlikely) uses better sole leather than Church's. What did Church's say - put stick-on rubber half soles on them ?

 

 

I never meant to say it was ridiculous. Apologies if I came across wrong. I honestly didn't understand how you'd gotten to 11 wears. I even reviewed my post to see whether I'd explained it wrong. They didn't offer any useful advice I'm afraid. Or any direction. Or answered my question on the resoling process. They did refer me to the store, but unfortunately I don't keep receipts so that's not going to be very helpful (and this is entirely my fault).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

Dude, you need toe taps, that's why. Also, needing a resole after a year is normal. That's basically my schedule.

 

I seems so. It's tranquilizing to see it's within normality. As I said in my post, I've never needed formal shoes before so it came as a shock to me that these would only last for a year. Is there any dignified way of wearing toe taps? Any suggestions? I'd say it's probably the way to go if the pattern is repeated.

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