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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 716

post #10726 of 19065
Quote:
Originally Posted by kentyman View Post

Here's a little follow-up.

I first tried the rubber cement as suggested by DWFII, and was pretty impressed with it's ability to lighten by removing oil. Unfortunately, it is hard to really pinpoint where it removes, especially since I spread the problem around with water as shown above. But as you can see below, I was able to splotchily lighten as in the picture below. The lighter parts are where the thicker parts of the rubber cement were. Sadly, it didn't remove the watermarks:


I now wanted to solve the watermark problem, so I took patrickBOOTH's suggestion of vinegar/water. I decided to cover most of that panel of leather with the solution and use paper towels to hold it in place. Interestingly, you can see that some spots simply wouldn't absorb any:




Waterstains are nearly impossible to get rid of.

If this last photo is of the shoe after is has dried thoroughly, I'm afraid it's a done deal. The only remedy I know of is to soak both shoes to the point where the leather is uniformly dark with moisture, and then put a liberal coat of Bick4 on them all over (don't spare the conditioner and don't wipe off, either) and let them dry slowly.

And yes, the leather may end up a shade or two darker but which is worse parts that are darker and so look odd or the whole shoe being darker and no one ...not even yourself after a little while...knowing it was ever a different colour?

PS...A word to the wise--I am hesitant to make that ^ recommendation...I've treated leather with waterstains in this fashion a number of times and had good success, but I've also had failures. Sometimes, depending on the leather and what fat liquors were used, what tanning agents are still resident in the leather, it only makes the stains more entrenched and...well, worse. It's always, the remedy of last resort.

--
Edited by DWFII - 9/22/14 at 2:04pm
post #10727 of 19065
The first issue is that the paper towel wasn't uniformly on the panel, that believe it or not makes a difference. Also, if you are going to let it sit on the leather for an extended period of time I'd have used distilled water. Also, because the staining is happening even with the vinegar solution I would have used a greater proportion of vinegar 3/4 vinegar to 1/4 distilled water. I recently got some unsightly water stains out of a friends shoes doing this. I would have used my initial recommendation and rub it with some elbow grease, let it sit and dry, and do that again slowly so you can see the progress.

All in all, I think the panel slightly darker uniformly looks better than it did. Get some slightly lighter colored cream on it and time and you won't even notice in a while.
post #10728 of 19065
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

The first issue is that the paper towel wasn't uniformly on the panel, that believe it or not makes a difference. Also, if you are going to let it sit on the leather for an extended period of time I'd have used distilled water. Also, because the staining is happening even with the vinegar solution I would have used a greater proportion of vinegar 3/4 vinegar to 1/4 distilled water. I recently got some unsightly water stains out of a friends shoes doing this. I would have used my initial recommendation and rub it with some elbow grease, let it sit and dry, and do that again slowly so you can see the progress.

All in all, I think the panel slightly darker uniformly looks better than it did. Get some slightly lighter colored cream on it and time and you won't even notice in a while.

Distilled water is almost a must especially in spot applications. Minerals in the water or in the leather--excess chrome salts, for instance--are a big part of water stains. IMO.
post #10729 of 19065
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Waterstains are nearly impossible to get rid of.

If this last photo is of the shoe after is has dried thoroughly, I'm afraid it's a done deal. The only remedy I know of is to soak both shoes to the point where the leather is uniformly dark with moisture, and then put a liberal coat of Bick4 on them all over (don't spare the conditioner and don't wipe off, either) and let them dry slowly.

And yes, the leather may end up a shade or two darker but which is worse parts that are darker and so look odd or the whole shoe being darker and no one ...not even yourself after a little while...knowing it was ever a different colour?

PS...A word to the wise--I am hesitant to make that ^ recommendation...I've treated leather with waterstains in this fashion a number of times and had good success, but I've also had failures. Sometimes, depending on the leather and what fat liquors were used, what tanning agents are still resident in the leather, it only makes the stains more entrenched and...well, worse. It's always, the remedy of last resort.
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

The first issue is that the paper towel wasn't uniformly on the panel, that believe it or not makes a difference. Also, if you are going to let it sit on the leather for an extended period of time I'd have used distilled water. Also, because the staining is happening even with the vinegar solution I would have used a greater proportion of vinegar 3/4 vinegar to 1/4 distilled water. I recently got some unsightly water stains out of a friends shoes doing this. I would have used my initial recommendation and rub it with some elbow grease, let it sit and dry, and do that again slowly so you can see the progress.

All in all, I think the panel slightly darker uniformly looks better than it did. Get some slightly lighter colored cream on it and time and you won't even notice in a while.

 

First, thank you all for the help. While everything tried so far hasn't worked out perfectly, all the techniques showed some promise, were grounded with solid reasoning, and came with fair warnings. This is certainly a learning experience.

 

I think the contrast is different enough that I'm compelled to try soaking all the panels of shell uniformly. Distilled water makes a lot of sense, though I'm wondering if vinegar is even necessary if I'm just trying to get even "stains". patrickBOOTH, would you have any concern about lingering smell if I did the whole shoe with 75% vinegar, or would the smell go away eventually? The part I've already done certainly smells if I put my nose up to it.

 

Also, any idea how to soak the parts of the shell that seem resistant to soaking? If the whole shoe doesn't get stained, it kinda defeats the purpose.

 

I was going to ask if I could sub in Venetian Shoe Cream, Saphir Renovateur, Allen Edmonds Conditioner/Cleaner or Leather Lotion, or something else I have on-hand... then decided to just go with DWFII's recommendation and ordered some Bick 4 from Amazon. Pro'ly better than restarting the debate between all those conditioners and Lexol, GlenKaren, etc. ;)

post #10730 of 19065
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Distilled water is almost a must especially in spot applications. Minerals in the water or in the leather--excess chrome salts, for instance--are a big part of water stains. IMO.

 

This was my first mistake.

post #10731 of 19065
Quote:
Originally Posted by kentyman View Post

First, thank you all for the help. While everything tried so far hasn't worked out perfectly, all the techniques showed some promise, were grounded with solid reasoning, and came with fair warnings. This is certainly a learning experience.

I think the contrast is different enough that I'm compelled to try soaking all the panels of shell uniformly. Distilled water makes a lot of sense, though I'm wondering if vinegar is even necessary if I'm just trying to get even "stains". patrickBOOTH, would you have any concern about lingering smell if I did the whole shoe with 75% vinegar, or would the smell go away eventually? The part I've already done certainly smells if I put my nose up to it.

Also, any idea how to soak the parts of the shell that seem resistant to soaking? If the whole shoe doesn't get stained, it kinda defeats the purpose.

I was going to ask if I could sub in Venetian Shoe Cream, Saphir Renovateur, Allen Edmonds Conditioner/Cleaner or Leather Lotion, or something else I have on-hand... then decided to just go with DWFII's recommendation and ordered some Bick 4 from Amazon. Pro'ly better than restarting the debate between all those conditioners and Lexol, GlenKaren, etc. wink.gif

Patrick is probably the go-to guy in this but I'd use some Lexol cleaner on the shoes before soaking. The spots that resisted the water/vinegar probably had a little more grease or polish or wax on the surface. You need a clean surface. You could also put a few drops of liquid dishwashing detergent in the water-- I do this all the time before lasting. the detergent cuts through the grease, etc., and allow the moisture to penetrate.

You could try to keep the water out of the shoe but as long as you condition inside and out after everything dries, it shouldn't be a problem. Also use warm but not hot water. Shell is a veg tan and veg hates heat.

Again, all kinds of disclaimers apply...waterstains are tough.
post #10732 of 19065
The vinegar is what gets rid of the stain. If you don't use that you're just introducing more "stain" if you will. Like DW said minerals will cause a mark, but also pH shifting will cause a mark as well. Distilled water is a pH of 7, which leaves a mark. Vinegar is around 2.5 or 3. You want to get the natural state of the leather between 3-5. I wouldn't go about staining your whole shoe. That's ridiculous and unnecessary. I think to a large extent you're fretting over a non-issue and as with most things the best route to a solution is taking the least most invasive action first.

Shell isn't going to absorb uniformly as the finish and the muscle is affecting how it absorbs. The fact is the part that is stained is absorbent, that's the spot you want to concentrate on, not to parts that will be unaffected due to its water resistance.
post #10733 of 19065

I have zero experience in this just what I read....why not mask off the entire shoe except where the stain is and set it in the sun to lighten. I have seen many pictures of folks that have lightened shell shoes on purpose using this method.

 

Personally I would give that a shot for a few days and see what happens before moving onto the other suggestions. Since the sun method is not going to take much effort.

post #10734 of 19065

@kentyman : I dont think your shell has dried entirely yet.

Before doing anything else, I would let the shoes sit for at least a week  more.

When shell absorbs water, it dries verry slowly. Even if the surface feels dry, water would be embedded in the membrane (which shell is) for longer than it does on cowhide (which is mostly epidermis).

I think you should wait for a week letting the shoes sit in a well-aired place (but not in the sun), before trying more things.

post #10735 of 19065
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepyinsanfran View Post

@kentyman
: I dont think your shell has dried entirely yet.
Before doing anything else, I would let the shoes sit for at least a week  more.
When shell absorbs water, it dries verry slowly. Even if the surface feels dry, water would be embedded in the membrane (which shell is) for longer than it does on cowhide (which is mostly epidermis).
I think you should wait for a week letting the shoes sit in a well-aired place (but not in the sun), before trying more things.

That's a good point. It could be still somewhat wet. In any case, letting it sit for a couple of days in a warm spot wouldn't hurt anything.
post #10736 of 19065
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepyinsanfran View Post
 

@kentyman : I dont think your shell has dried entirely yet.

Before doing anything else, I would let the shoes sit for at least a week  more.

When shell absorbs water, it dries verry slowly. Even if the surface feels dry, water would be embedded in the membrane (which shell is) for longer than it does on cowhide (which is mostly epidermis).

I think you should wait for a week letting the shoes sit in a well-aired place (but not in the sun), before trying more things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

That's a good point. It could be still somewhat wet. In any case, letting it sit for a couple of days in a warm spot wouldn't hurt anything.

 

Good advice. I'll continue to leave them out to dry, which will also give time to ponder my next move -- and possibly hear more advice. Thanks.

post #10737 of 19065
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


Yes, that's it. If you read the Wiki it says that fullers--people, who in times past made felt from sheeps wool--blended the clay with the wool to absorb the lanolin and suint.

If you're doubtful...ask yourself "what can it hurt?" It's just powdered clay....seriously.

--

 

Thanks again. I'm going to try this and post results.

post #10738 of 19065
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

The vinegar is what gets rid of the stain. If you don't use that you're just introducing more "stain" if you will. Like DW said minerals will cause a mark, but also pH shifting will cause a mark as well. Distilled water is a pH of 7, which leaves a mark. Vinegar is around 2.5 or 3. You want to get the natural state of the leather between 3-5. I wouldn't go about staining your whole shoe. That's ridiculous and unnecessary. I think to a large extent you're fretting over a non-issue and as with most things the best route to a solution is taking the least most invasive action first.

Shell isn't going to absorb uniformly as the finish and the muscle is affecting how it absorbs. The fact is the part that is stained is absorbent, that's the spot you want to concentrate on, not to parts that will be unaffected due to its water resistance.

It's actually a common misconception that distilled water has a ph of 7. When it is freshly distilled and assuming there are absolutely no ions present (which there will be) it will have a pH of 7. However CO2 in the atmosphere dissolves into the water as soon as it is exposed to air, creating dilute carbonic acid, shifting the pH into the 5-6 range. Not that it's extremely relevant as it is still above the pH range of leather that you suggested, but i just thought i'd pitch in.

post #10739 of 19065
WTS vacuum sealed pure distill water elixier with neutral pH.
post #10740 of 19065

Dear all,

 

I'm a French guy who arrived in the US not that long ago, and i found it almost impossible to find a cobbler capable of putting metal Toe caps on my shoes. I tend to destroy the toe part of my shoes, which makes a toe protection mandatory.

 

I saw that bean-shaped toe protection are fairly common here, but I find it extremely unaesthetic compared to a screwed-on metal toe tap. I never found anyone capable of doing it in Philadelphia, and since I'm moving to Chicago, would you know anyone who can do it?

 

A picture is always better that a long speech, here's what I'm looking for

 

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 90

 

 

Yoba

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