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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 694

post #10396 of 19043
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

But how could it "cover" the "outsole stitching" if it is the outsole stitching? And who or what was he responding to?

Just a conjecture but I have no idea what or who Nick V was responding to.

But it does cover welt stitching, ya?
post #10397 of 19043
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

Just a conjecture but I have no idea what or who Nick V was responding to.

But it does cover welt stitching, ya?

I don't either.

If it's a welt channel he's talking about, yes, that would more or less hide the welt stitching. But he didn't mention a channel. He said blind stitch. It doesn't make any sense...on so many levels.
post #10398 of 19043
I think my question fell by the wayside, but if anybody knows I'm curious to what the pigments are made of in shoe polishes? Is it some sort of liquid chemical, or is it a powder of some sort?
post #10399 of 19043
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

I think my question fell by the wayside, but if anybody knows I'm curious to what the pigments are made of in shoe polishes? Is it some sort of liquid chemical, or is it a powder of some sort?

pB,

If I knew I'd tell you...smile.gif

But I suspect the reason why the question has gone begging is due to the reluctance of the companies who make leather care products to reveal the ingredients.

I could conjecture....conjecture that the pigments are similar to common aniline leather dyes without the alcohol. Most creams and even polishes will permanently stain leather...crust, for instance. Beyond that, I dunno.
post #10400 of 19043
I don't know because most shoe polishes can be removed with some sort of mineral spirit pretty well without disturbing aniline dyes. Maybe because the aniline dye is under the factory finish of the leather?
post #10401 of 19043
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

I don't know because most shoe polishes can be removed with some sort of mineral spirit pretty well without disturbing aniline dyes. Maybe because the aniline dye is under the factory finish of the leather?

Well, again, I am not an expert on the ingredients in shoe products, I don't know anyone who is...at least not here (maybe GlenJay?). But I often use wax as a mask to prevent dye from permanently staining. doesn't work very well but some.

Point is that from what little I do know, aniline dyes are commonly carried in a solvent that is alcohol or something like alcohol. Once they penetrate the leather they are more or less there permanently. But it's the alcohol that does the penetrating. If the dyes stuffs are in a wax carrier rather than a solvent, suspect they have markedly less "strike."

Surface dyes and finish coats, which are more like paint than dyes in the conventional sense of the word, are fairly effective (although not guaranteed) barriers to even pure liquid aniline dyes. Of course much depends on the finish, itself--what its make up is.

So if you put wax or cream on a leather that has a surface finish it can easily be removed . Do that on crust however and I think the results will be significantly different.

I'm guessing now so I think I ought to leave it to someone with more insight...@Glenjay perhaps?
post #10402 of 19043
Quote:
Originally Posted by jssdc View Post

Question for those with experience on closed channel soles peeling: how long has it taken before this has happened?  

Two pairs of C&J handgrade both started peeling at the same time after a little over a year.  In terms of usage, I wear each of them 1-2 times per week and until recently I had a walking lifestyle splitting time between Manhattan and central DC.  I don't tend to bother much about rain unless it's a downpour so I'm sure they've gotten wet.  I've just super-glued down the peels when they've popped up so it doesn't really bother me - I'm inquiring more as a point of curiosity.  Is a year or so about how long these should stay stuck down, or was C&J using cheap glue?

This is what I was referring to.
post #10403 of 19043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick V. View Post

This is what I was referring to.

I don't get it...he doesn't mention stitching. He's talking about the channel. The stitching in the channel could be referred to as a "blind stitch" but how does it cover the outsole stitching? It IS the outsole stitching. ("A blind stitch covers the out-sole stitching.")
post #10404 of 19043
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

I don't get it...he doesn't mention stitching. He's talking about the channel. The stitching in the channel could be referred to as a "blind stitch" but how does it cover the outsole stitching? It IS the outsole stitching. ("A blind stitch covers the out-sole stitching.")

Maybe I didn't explain it well but, here is a picture of what I was try
ing to explain:
post #10405 of 19043

Is this boot blake stitched or rapid blake stitch:

 

 

US7tMkx.jpg yaN15Js.jpg 86I2kzJ.jpg I removed the insole so you can see another set of stitches, which seem really weak to me. Are they holding that white subinsole? Thanks.

post #10406 of 19043
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

I think my question fell by the wayside, but if anybody knows I'm curious to what the pigments are made of in shoe polishes? Is it some sort of liquid chemical, or is it a powder of some sort?

In a general sense, pigment is a powder, and dye is a liquid. More specifically pigment is insoluble and needs to be suspended in a medium (like wax), whereas dye is soluble and can be absorbed as a liquid. The medium for dye can be water, alcohol, or any number of solvents that evaporate.

Aniline dyed leather is by definition dyed. Most shoe polish uses pigment, so when the wax is stripped so inherently is the pigment. To add to this the majority of leather used in shoe making has a finish on it from the tannery which is applied after the leather is dyed, or as part of the dying process. This finish on the leather keeps the pigment in shoe polish from directly affecting the leather for the most part; this is even truer for corrected grain leather.

In cases where the shoe maker applies their own coloring to create a certain effect, it can be rubbed off because it is sitting on top of the finish by the tannery. Of course a dye will adhere better to (and permeate to some degree) the finish than a pigmented wax, but even a dye on top of a finish can be removed without affecting the dyed leather below the finish.

Because pigment is insoluble it holds its color much longer without fading than dye does, which is why most printer ink manufactures have gone from dye based inks to pigment based inks.

Millions of tons of organic and inorganic pigment is sold worldwide every year. Pigment is mainly iron oxides (fine powdered dirt) and is typically mined. There are also inorganic man-made pigments that emulate iron oxides, and is of course still a powder.

Dyes were predominately plant based until chemical solution were created for cheaper, quicker and more effective use. Chemical dyes can contain such chemicals as Benzene, Nitric Acid, Sulfuric Acid and so on.
post #10407 of 19043

Do you apply wax polish with a brush or with a cloth?

 

Personally I use a cloth...but I have gotten some great shines with a brush too...

post #10408 of 19043
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenjay View Post

In a general sense, pigment is a powder, and dye is a liquid. More specifically pigment is insoluble and needs to be suspended in a medium (like wax), whereas dye is soluble and can be absorbed as a liquid. The medium for dye can be water, alcohol, or any number of solvents that evaporate.

Aniline dyed leather is by definition dyed.
.

Glen,

Thanks for your reply....

The one thing that nags at me is that I have some wood dye that is in powder form that is sold as an aniline dye. The powder appears to be more or less crystalline. I think it is supposed to be mixed with alcohol but I mix it with water. Also some of the old books instruct makers to use a powdered form of aniline dye and mix it with hot water and then with gum tragacanth to create a bottom finish. It seems that making your own dye...from powder...was fairly common back in the day.

??
post #10409 of 19043
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolarrow View Post

Is this boot blake stitched or rapid blake stitch:

I don't see Blake or Blake-Rapid all that often anymore but I am fairly certain you're looking at Blake Rapid. I appears that the outsole is sewn along the external edge to a midsole (Rapid) which has been "Blaked" to the insole. .
Quote:
I removed the insole so you can see another set of stitches, which seem really weak to me. Are they holding that white subinsole? Thanks.

The thread inside does not seem to be stitched tightly enough (might be due to the composition of the insole) but it is probably substantial enough to be Blake. The white could be a thin covering (like a "sock") over the true insole...or at least one would hope there was something more to it. But more likely, it is a leatherboard or paperboard insole...simply because if it were a real veg tanned leather insole it wouldn't be white, and, additionally, the stitching would have seated a little better...perhaps.

FWIW...long range speculation...
post #10410 of 19043
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Glen,

Thanks for your reply....

The one thing that nags at me is that I have some wood dye that is in powder form that is sold as an aniline dye. The powder appears to be more or less crystalline. I think it is supposed to be mixed with alcohol but I mix it with water. Also some of the old books instruct makers to use a powdered form of aniline dye and mix it with hot water and then with gum tragacanth to create a bottom finish. It seems that making your own dye...from powder...was fairly common back in the day.

??

Dye can start in a powdered (or dry) state but is soluble and therefore changes state to some degree at the molecular level when liquefied, pigment does not. Think of purple pigment at the microscopic level as a bunch or red and blue stones being suspended in a medium such as wax or oil (as in oil paint). Pigment has to be in a suspension state when not in powder form, dye does not. Actually pigment remains in powdered form even when suspended, it is just dispersed throughout the medium it is suspended in.

Aniline (used in creating aniline dye) is a toxic organic compound with the chemical formula C6H5NH2. Industrial aniline production involves two steps. First, benzene is nitrated with a concentrated mixture of nitric acid and sulfuric acid at 50 to 60 °C to yield nitrobenzene. The nitrobenzene is then hydrogenated (typically at 200–300 °C) in the presence of metal catalysts, this creates aniline. Although aniline dye can be in a dry state it is usually liquefied with a solvent like water, alcohol or other solvents to be used.
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