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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.** - Page 691

post #10351 of 19068
I find it ironic that your handle is a play on the word "quality".
post #10352 of 19068

DW, I feel as though I might have appeared a bit strident in my response to you about colour. I apologise for this and assure you that it was not intended. Best wishes, Munky

post #10353 of 19068
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koala-T View Post

... explains the fundamental difference between Hand and Goodyear welted shoes, and Blake and Blake-rapid shoes

Hand welted--the upper, the upper lining and the welt are hand sewn, with a stout thread that has been hand waxed with pine pitch and pine rosin, directly to a stout, high quality insole.




Goodyear--the upper, upper lining and the welt are machine stitched (chain stitched--kind of like on a feed sack) to a canvas strip (gemming) that has been cemented to a lower quality (sometimes not even leather) and thinner insole. Prior to the mounting of the outsole, the whole inseam is dependent on the cement (it is fundamentally a cement construction) and the durability of the canvas gemming.



Blake--the last is pulled and a Blake or McKay machine is used to sew from the inside of the shoe, through the upper and the insole, to the outsole. Sometimes this is sewn "aloft," (on the surface of the outsole); sometimes it is done to an open channel or groovel in the outsole; less often to a closed channel. Often the insole is of marginal quality or leatherboard (faux leather made like particle board) or even no real insole at all.



(The upper arrow points to the insole, the next lower to the nails, staples or stitching that secures the upper to the insole, the next lowest to the McKay/Blake stitching, next the insole filler and the lowest, the outsole.)

Blake-Rapid--the same procedures apply as with Blake except the final layer is a "midsole" ...somewhat thinner (half) than an outsole would be...and it is left proud around the margins of the shoe so that it looks like a welt. The outsole is then sewn to that margin with a machine often called a "Rapid" sole stitcher. Hence "Blake-Rapid."

--
Edited by DWFII - 8/18/14 at 8:28am
post #10354 of 19068
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post

DW, I feel as though I might have appeared a bit strident in my response to you about colour. I apologise for this and assure you that it was not intended. Best wishes, Munky

Not at all--dinna fash yerself, laddie.
post #10355 of 19068
There is a myriad of variations......

http://www.courtley-sons.it/constructions.php
post #10356 of 19068

This was imminently helpful. Thank you very much. Perhaps now I can live up to the strictures of my handle.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


Hand welted--the upper, the upper lining and the welt are hand sewn, with a stout thread that has been hand waxed with pine pitch and pine rosin, directly to a stout, high quality insole.




Goodyear--the upper, upper lining and the welt are machine stitched (chain stitched--kind of like on a feed sack) to a canvas strip (gemming) that has been cemented to a lower quality (sometimes not even leather) and thinner insole. Prior to the mounting of the outsole, the whole inseam is dependent on the cement (it is fundamentally a cement construction) and the durability of the canvas gemming.



Blake--the last is pulled and a Blake or McKay machine is used to sew from the inside of the shoe, through the upper and the insole, to the outsole. Sometimes this is sewn "aloft," (on the surface of the outsole); sometimes it is done to an open channel or groovel in the outsole; less often to a closed channel. Often the insole is of marginal quality or leatherboard (faux leather made like particle board) or even no real insole at all.



(The upper arrow points to the insole, the next lower to the nails, staples or stitching that secures the upper to the insole, the next lowest to the McKay/Blake stitching, next the insole filler and the lowest, the outsole.)

Blake-Rapid--the same procedures apply as with Blake except the final layer is a "midsole" ...somewhat thinner (half) than an outsole would be...and it is left proud around the margins of the shoe so that it looks like a welt. The outsole is then sewn to that margin with a machine often called a "Rapid" sole stitcher. Hence "Blake-Rapid."

--
post #10357 of 19068

Is it a bad idea to use dark brown Saphir cream/wax polish on these shoes? The colour is mahogany. Would medium brown be better?

 

http://www.nomanwalksalone.com/index.php/footwear/shoes/antique-mahogany-wilson-cap-toe-oxford.html

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
alssho002_4_1.jpgALSSHO002_8.jpg
post #10358 of 19068
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickInTO View Post

Is it a bad idea to use dark brown Saphir cream/wax polish on these shoes? The colour is mahogany. Would medium brown be better?

http://www.nomanwalksalone.com/index.php/footwear/shoes/antique-mahogany-wilson-cap-toe-oxford.html
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
alssho002_4_1.jpgALSSHO002_8.jpg

If you want to keep the shoe a similar/same colour, then I'd go with medium.
Maybe use the dark if you wanted to antique areas of the shoe or darken as a whole?
post #10359 of 19068

Saphir do both cream and wax in mahogany. Why not use those?

post #10360 of 19068
Maybe the colors are not ttl but they look to me like dark brown would work just fine.
post #10361 of 19068

Question for those with experience on closed channel soles peeling: how long has it taken before this has happened?  

 

Two pairs of C&J handgrade both started peeling at the same time after a little over a year.  In terms of usage, I wear each of them 1-2 times per week and until recently I had a walking lifestyle splitting time between Manhattan and central DC.  I don't tend to bother much about rain unless it's a downpour so I'm sure they've gotten wet.  I've just super-glued down the peels when they've popped up so it doesn't really bother me - I'm inquiring more as a point of curiosity.  Is a year or so about how long these should stay stuck down, or was C&J using cheap glue?

post #10362 of 19068
Quote:
Originally Posted by jssdc View Post
 

Question for those with experience on closed channel soles peeling: how long has it taken before this has happened?  

 

Two pairs of C&J handgrade both started peeling at the same time after a little over a year.  In terms of usage, I wear each of them 1-2 times per week and until recently I had a walking lifestyle splitting time between Manhattan and central DC.  I don't tend to bother much about rain unless it's a downpour so I'm sure they've gotten wet.  I've just super-glued down the peels when they've popped up so it doesn't really bother me - I'm inquiring more as a point of curiosity.  Is a year or so about how long these should stay stuck down, or was C&J using cheap glue?


Don't have any C&J but the stitching on the soles of my Carminas recently became exposed after 4 months of 2-3x week wear averaging 2-3 miles walking daily and the rare 10m+ jaunt.

post #10363 of 19068
Quote:
Originally Posted by jssdc View Post

Question for those with experience on closed channel soles peeling: how long has it taken before this has happened?  

Two pairs of C&J handgrade both started peeling at the same time after a little over a year.  In terms of usage, I wear each of them 1-2 times per week and until recently I had a walking lifestyle splitting time between Manhattan and central DC.  I don't tend to bother much about rain unless it's a downpour so I'm sure they've gotten wet.  I've just super-glued down the peels when they've popped up so it doesn't really bother me - I'm inquiring more as a point of curiosity.  Is a year or so about how long these should stay stuck down, or was C&J using cheap glue?

It's a perennial problem that I've never heard a solution to, outside of solvent based cement. I don't know what the manufacturers use (they certainly have access) but most bespoke makers use solvent based cements as little as possible.
post #10364 of 19068
Hello, quite new here so apologies if this has been covered. I have a problem where by I seem to be wearing through the vamp lining of shoes quicker than any other part.
Any thoughts or suggestions to prevent or reduce this?
post #10365 of 19068

Given that some of us think that C&J's and Carmina's are posh shoes, what are we to learn from this? Given that many lower priced shoes last a lot longer, what is the point of increasing the amount we pay for shoes - at least for RTW? Or are these cases 'outliers'? I'm not keen on paying for C&J shoes, only to have to superglue them. 

Yours sincerely,

Munky

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