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** Quintessential Crockett & Jones Thread ** (reviews, quality, etc...) - Page 647

post #9691 of 12795
Quote:
Originally Posted by zippyh View Post

Whiskey Skye GMTO

These are looking really nice indeed! A work of art almost.
post #9692 of 12795
Quote:
Originally Posted by zippyh View Post

Whiskey Skye GMTO

wonderful
post #9693 of 12795
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Originally Posted by KPDarb View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sevenfoldtieguy View Post

A tip to my USA brethren: I live in the USA and order form C


I know this has been rehashed to death and apologize in advance. Do you get hit with duties and fees or ask for a preferred method to avoid this?

In my experience, it has been hit and miss - sometimes yes, sometimes no.
post #9694 of 12795
Quote:
Originally Posted by TweedyProf View Post

Here are few measurements I could locate from the thread. I take it Cleav's shoes are not from Barneys, but perhaps the rest are:
...
@Fred G. Unn
 helped me earlier.
"The sole of my UK9s measure about 12 3/8""

Yep, just measured again and my UK9E Westbournes are 12 3/8" x 4 1/4". There's no footbed stamp on these but they were purchased in the UK and are UK sized, not a Barney's shoe.





post #9695 of 12795

@Fred G. Unn 

 

Cheers. I'll collate data since sizing has been such a problem. 

post #9696 of 12795
selvedge8tweed PM'ed me about measurements and here's what I replied.
Quote:
I've got a couple pairs of 348 handy.

A size 10US measures 12.75 inches. They're suede George style boots.
A size 10.5US measures 12.875 inches. They're suede Tetburys.
Both are on dainite soles.
They also both fit pretty much the same.

I originally bought the George style ones in 10.5 but returned and got the 10s.

Neither of the above two have the size stamped in the foot bed but others I have, the numbers match whatever size they were sold as e.g. 10.5/4 for ones from Barney's. I just checked a pair of UK9.5 and they're stamped 9 1/2 / 5.

I measured with a cloth tape measure like Fred G.
post #9697 of 12795
Quote:
Originally Posted by zippyh View Post

selvedge8tweed PM'ed me about measurements and here's what I replied.
I measured with a cloth tape measure like Fred G.


Thanks @zippyh 

 

More data I'll collate and put together in a post in a few days.

 

It's interesting that yours are longer than Fred's although perhaps that has to do with the dainite sole (about 0.5 inches)?

 

What's traditional wisdom: 1/8 inch per half size US? 

post #9698 of 12795
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Originally Posted by Berners15 View Post


6pm sounds quite reasonable to me
I don't feel this is normal to me. I think most places in Manhattan are open till at least 7 or 8.
post #9699 of 12795
Quote:
Originally Posted by TweedyProf View Post

@Wes Bourne
 

Thanks. I feel like we're making some progress. Any chance of getting a measurement of your 8E UK 348s of the sole, heel to toe?

@TweedyProf : outsole measures 30.8cm heel to toe with a tailor tape = 12 1/8''.
post #9700 of 12795
Quote:
Originally Posted by TweedyProf View Post


Thanks @zippyh
 
It's interesting that yours are longer than Fred's although perhaps that has to do with the dainite sole (about 0.5 inches)?

That and manufacturing tolerances, i.e. the outsole might have been trimmed closer to the upper on one pair of shoes compared to another same size/style pair. Hell, I'm sure there are variations between left/right shoe in the same pair.
post #9701 of 12795
@TweedyProf Some of bengal's posts might be of interest to you, although they prob won't help with Barneys' C&J sizing :
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post

Feet and shoe lasts get measured with a "˜measuring stick' which measures in "˜sizes'. One of the uprights is fixed, the other one sliding.




The length of the last is the length of the foot, plus the allowance in front of the toes. Here the allowance changes, so does the stick length, nevertheless both designs would be sold with the same size, as the 'usable' size does not change.





Shoemakers talk about the "˜stick length'. Measuring on the outside is unreliable, as soles can be cut wider or narrower and hence distort the reading. Most modern lasts lie over the nominal stick length, John Lobb's last 7000 is about 1 size larger.


The length has no influence with heel slippage, this is regulated by the width (circumference).
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post

The shoe size indicates the length of the last, not length of the foot.


The length of the last is the length of the foot plus the allowance in front of the toes. Every last is longer than the actual foot. How much longer, depends on the shape of the toe (a chunky, round toe needs less allowance than a slim, pointed toe) and also on the school of shoemaking.


As the length of the last is traditionally measured with a measuring stick (a ruler with two uprights: one fixed for the heel, one sliding for the toe) shoemakers talk about the "˜stick length'. The stick length is always indicated in "˜sizes' (either English, American or French), the other measurements (circumference) are taken in either inches or metric.


As your foot is 10 ½ inches long that gives an English size of 9 ½ for the foot. To that we add the allowance which should be 2 or 2 ½ sizes. That makes it an 11 ½ or 12 size. Most modern commercial lasts clock in longer than the nominal shoe size (so a last marked 11 might well have a stick length of 11 ½ or 12.


Go into a good shoe shop and get measured on the Brannock scale. The Brannock scale compensates (to a certain extend) for differences in the toe allowance as the length from heel to ball is considered more important than the actual length of the foot.


Quote:


Originally Posted by hobscrk777 View Post

I also recently purchased a pair of wingtips from J Crew in size 10.5D. I've decided to return them, but they provided another interesting lesson in fit. I find them to be too loose and roomy. I can slide my foot forward into the toe box with enough room to fit a finger between my heel and the back of the shoe. I've searched around on SF, and several people say that these shoes run a little large. If this is the case, then the 10.5D I tried on may be equivalent to a "true" 11D, meaning my "true" size would be 10.5D




To get a finger inside when you slide right up to the toe should not be excessive. In this case it might be that the shoes are somewhat wide and a 10 ½ C (if available) might have been a better size.


Quote:


Originally Posted by hobscrk777 View Post

.......AE Leeds in 10.5D. I tried these on, but found them uncomfortably tight in the toe box. This was another useful lesson in fit, but it seems to contradict the assessment I made after trying on the J Crew shoes.




In this case 11 C might have been a better size, it would have pushed the toe further out and give more room (the heel is always lined up to the "back wall" without increasing the overall circumference.


As I said, get measured on the Brannock scale and take it from there. From what you said, you might have a narrower foot than you presume. The Brannock scale will not give you a certain size and all shoes (regardless of manufacturer and design will fit by magic.


But at least it will give you some idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post


Quote:


Originally Posted by Roger View Post

I take a 9 B/C in EG, and I've always thought of them as more like 43 Euro. In fact, with mine they fit more like a 42.5. The RLPL EGs are marked 9/9.5, which supposedly indicates the UK size first followed by the US size. If the US size is to be believed (and my RLPL Grants would seem to confirm this), the RLPL 9/9.5 does equate to approximately a 42.5. With Vass, I'm a perfect 42.5, and with JLobb, I'm an 8.5 UK. With all that, the EG 9 fits me well. From all of this I've concluded that the EG 9 is a "small" 9.




The problem with shoe sizes, they do not measure the foot length, but the entire length of the last (stick length).

This is made up from the foot length as well as the allowance (empty space in front of the toe.

How much allowance a particular last needs is a matter of discussion as well as design related. (Pointed shoes need more space).


According to the rules a size 9 (English) shoe has a length of

Size 1 = 8 2/3" (220 mm), every additional size 1/3" (8.46 mm)

Size 9 = 8 2/3" + 8 x 1/3" - 2 2/3" = total 11 1/3" (287 mm)


A continental "˜stitch' measures 6.66 mm and begins at zero.

Size 43 has a length of 43 x 6.66 mm = 286 mm


9 or 43 should fit a foot that is about 10 ½" (265 - 270 mm) long.



Those are the rules but different designs use different allowances. C&J 248 or Vass U- last have an additional length

of about ½" (12 mm) to give that long elongated look. As far as I can measure inside the shoe, I would say

EG 202 and Church's 73 in size 9 are pretty close to the correct length. All 'fashionable lasts are "˜too long"˜.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post

Every shoe needs an allowance in front of the toe to fit comfortably. The length of your foot plus the allowance make up the length of the last (stick length). The correct allowance is toe shape dependent, so, a slim pointed toe needs more room than a chunky round one.


My old books (like Golding, 1902) state that 3 full sizes (= 1" - 25mm) is the allowance used for ready-to-wear shoes. Most modern shoes are not that generous anymore and today's measuring devices are probably calibrated to 2 sizes (= 2/3" - 17mm). Judging by your photograph, I would say, it might be 3/4" - 19mm, you are well within the correct range. That said, the shoe fit might be sluggish (I can't see that on the pictures). Ideally the back section of the shoe, heel to ball, should fit like a firm handshake (not a loose one, but neither an iron one that hurts). Your foot should be held in this section and not slip forward into the toe area.


Quote:


Originally Posted by LesterSnodgrass View Post

If it is too large you may end up with creases on the toe cap -- not good.




Creases on the toe cap are usually caused by too short and/or too wide a shoe, when the cap reaches further back than the point where the toes are joined.
post #9702 of 12795
@TweedyProf

If you're collating data, here are some measurements from shoes I've previously owned but have now sold (most to people here). I no longer have them so I can't double check measurements, but this is what I put in the listings.

Malton - Barney's version, US10D, 12 1/2" x 4 3/8"
Clifford - Barney's version, US10D, 12 3/8" x 4 1/4"
Winchester - C&J for Shipton & Heneage, UK9, 12 1/8" x 4 1/4"
Coniston - BB Black Fleece version, US10D, 12 3/8" x 4 1/4"

If you want data I have quite a few C&Js that I could measure, including shoes for RL, and the Barney's version of the Wicklow.
post #9703 of 12795

Thanks Gents, I'll collate these tomorrow.

 

@Fred G. Unn 

 

SOrry, I don't know the lasts of those. I'm focusing on the 348 which I take to the the most popular bench grade C&J so people have a reference. Any of those 348s? I'll include them as well in the collated post.

post #9704 of 12795
Quote:
Originally Posted by TweedyProf View Post

Thanks Gents, I'll collate these tomorrow.

@Fred G. Unn
 

SOrry, I don't know the lasts of those. I'm focusing on the 348 which I take to the the most popular bench grade C&J so people have a reference. Any of those 348s? I'll include them as well in the collated post.

Nope, none of those are 348s. I have the Lowndes, Hallam, and Westbourne on 348 in UK9E, and IIRC they all measure about the same. I don't have any US sized 348s although I did try the Barney's Tetbury in US10D and 9.5D.
post #9705 of 12795
I bought an 8.5D Lingfield from Barneys and compared it to my 7.5UK Tetbury's, and the length matched up (didn't measure - compared side to side).

Although the Barneys felt a little narrower.
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