or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Culture › Fine Living, Home, Design & Auto › What do you guys think of the new style BMW 5-Series (F10)?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

What do you guys think of the new style BMW 5-Series (F10)? - Page 6

post #76 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birks and Grey Socks View Post
Today, we get iDrive. What a change in corporate direction.

We get what "they" (the other 99% of purchasers) want. Given that Audi proceeded to implement a very iDrive-like system shortly after BMW introduced it, it's hard to argue with the soundness of the corporate direction, despite us "drivers" not getting what "we" want.

In spite of the fond memories of the E39, or in my case my E36, try to market one of those models new today in 2011 and see what happens.
post #77 of 92
I've seen the F10 many times on the road now and I gotta say that it is not ugly. In fact it looks pretty good even though it is gigantic. Especially the back side looks good, but I still need to get used to the current front styling (with the cut off nose).

I own an E39 myself and over the years my love for the E60 has grown. I don't think it is ugly, especially in a sports trim, but I am still not overwhelmed by it. I actually feel the same about the F10. It is alright but not hands down my favourite car in its class.

Funny discussion going on right away about the engine size. Over here in Holland the 523i and the 520d will probably be sold the most and some of you guys are immediately disqualifying the 528i, lol. The 550 will be a car that you'll hardly see over here. It costs 97.000 euros naked.
post #78 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by jet View Post
You proved my point as I had suspected.

ojfc.
post #79 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birks and Grey Socks View Post
I stand by my comments that the E39 is the last real 5 series.

I think your comments are valid and I agree with some of them. I was just remarking on your use of "real." Not liking it or a change in philosophy doesn't make the cars invalid. The disclaimer is actually a good sign, since it means the company is listening to the entire market rather than enthusiasts, as the latter will lead any car company into bankruptcy. The people that love the old cars are rarely the ones buying new ones, which is how a company survives. You don't convince BMW to change direction by keeping your E39 - you convince them buying getting an E-class or XF.

Everyone loves the 993 now, but part of the reason they're so pricey is they sold so few. The enthusiasts may like it, but they weren't rushing out to buy it in the showrooms. The 996 is cheap in large part because they sold a TON of them, warts and all. From what I've seen, the low prices are starting to erode 993 values - there comes a point where a 996 for less money is too good a deal to keep looking for a 993. I'd personally skip paying big money for a 993 to get a 996 GT3 or Turbo.
post #80 of 92
I wouldn't give up on electric power steering yet. It seems like it's still an infant technology that hasn't had as much tuning as hydraulic power steering, and it's necessary if we want cars to be more efficient.

--Andre
post #81 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by epb View Post

Everyone loves the 993 now, but part of the reason they're so pricey is they sold so few.

This is a very good point. The E60, for all the criticism it received when first released, was the best selling 5-series ever made, and also took the segment lead, outselling the E-class.
post #82 of 92
post #83 of 92
An interesting pint. Does selling more = better. I have my own opinion but it, it is neither right nor wrong on the issue. I am not so naive to be unaware that the 'bottom line' for any company is to make money (pun intended) But I do ask, would you all feel the same about your Tom Ford Ties, and Brioni suits if all of a sudden they became so popular that you saw one on every street corner. Or what if they put a visible Nike air sole to your Ferragamo shoes to make them so comfortable and lowered the price so they were so popular that every customer bought one from Walmart. In both these cases, I suspect some of that specialness would be gone. That's how I feel about the 996, and the E60/F10. Watered down to appeal to a larger base of customers.
post #84 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by epb View Post
Everyone loves the 993 now, but part of the reason they're so pricey is they sold so few. The enthusiasts may like it, but they weren't rushing out to buy it in the showrooms. The 996 is cheap in large part because they sold a TON of them, warts and all. From what I've seen, the low prices are starting to erode 993 values - there comes a point where a 996 for less money is too good a deal to keep looking for a 993. I'd personally skip paying big money for a 993 to get a 996 GT3 or Turbo.

IIRC, wasn't the 993 the last gen of the air-cooled and the 996 the first gen of the water-cooled? The 996 turned off quite a few purists, and its performance overall (non-turbo, non-GT3) would not compare favorably with a boxter or cayman today. I think these are the primary factors resulting in low market pricing more than anything.
post #85 of 92
Popularity is important because the money it takes to develop new cars complying with new emissions and safety regs, equipped with new technologies, like hybrid drivetrains, is enormous, on the order of billions of dollars. This was why there was (and is) so much consolidation in the market, with companies merging.

--Andre
post #86 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birks and Grey Socks View Post
But I do ask, would you all feel the same about your Tom Ford Ties, and Brioni suits if all of a sudden they became so popular that you saw one on every street corner.

If the quality were the same, I wouldn't mind a bit. From what I've seen, the most common result would be some pretty badly-worn nice suits and ties, rather than everyone suddenly looking great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by medtech_expat View Post
IIRC, wasn't the 993 the last gen of the air-cooled and the 996 the first gen of the water-cooled? The 996 turned off quite a few purists, and its performance overall (non-turbo, non-GT3) would not compare favorably with a boxter or cayman today. I think these are the primary factors resulting in low market pricing more than anything.

Thge 993 wouldn't compare favorably in terms of performance to new Porsches either - it's the nature of the game. The 996 is pretty much ahead of the 993, performance-wise and safety-wise. The average person's reason for valuing the 993 more is simple supply and demand, and a bit of brainwashing on the Porsche forums. The chief factors hurting its resale with longtime enthusiasts are:

1) It's built much more cheaply as far as interior quality. The 993 was built to a standard, the 996 to a price-point. Constant and universal criticism finally corrected the issue with the 997/987.

2) The 996 body style was/is seen as too conservative because it lacks fender flares, which is funny to me; the design was meant to resemble the original 911's arrow-like sleek shape, but group consciousness pretty much sees the 80s cars as the "real" 911 shape now.

3) The 996 has a rep for unreliability/high maintenance, perhaps unfairly, due to the IMS/RMS issue. Regardless of whether or not the problem is prevalent, Porsche's refusal to fix the flawed design for over a decade cost them a lot of credibility. However, historically half the 911s made have some sort of expensive issue that makes them undesirable - the 1974-1977 US cars, the 964(1989-1993), now the 996. This is just the first time the company has cynically decided to keep making flawed cars to save a few bucks, knowing that many wouldn't act up until after the warranty period was over. Common practice for car companies, but people expected better of Porsche. People that want that sort of treatment buy Ferraris.
post #87 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birks and Grey Socks View Post
An interesting pint. Does selling more = better. I have my own opinion but it, it is neither right nor wrong on the issue. I am not so naive to be unaware that the 'bottom line' for any company is to make money (pun intended)

But I do ask, would you all feel the same about your Tom Ford Ties, and Brioni suits if all of a sudden they became so popular that you saw one on every street corner. Or what if they put a visible Nike air sole to your Ferragamo shoes to make them so comfortable and lowered the price so they were so popular that every customer bought one from Walmart. In both these cases, I suspect some of that specialness would be gone. That's how I feel about the 996, and the E60/F10. Watered down to appeal to a larger base of customers.

I suppose lady gaga and katy perry represent the pinnacle of musical achievement.
post #88 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birks and Grey Socks View Post
I miss the E30s too, I did have a 325e. Great car, mediocre engine. I thought the same thing about the 1. Its exterior size is what the 3 should be. Is it just the fondness filter of past memories or is the passenger compartment and trunk area in the 1 smaller when compared to the E30? The current 3 has gotten huge, and the F10 is the same size of a E38 7 series

Damn, I had a 325e as well!
post #89 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birks and Grey Socks View Post
I stand by my comments that the E39 is the last real 5 series. Actually When I was looking to trade in the E39 540i, I desperately wanted to be impressed by the E60 545i. But during the test drive, it was wholely underwhelming. So I went back and bought the E39 M5.

What is it that makes you consider the E39 the last "true" 5 series? If one were to build an argument, the case for the E34 is much stronger. The E34 had true kidney grilles, 4 round headlights exposed to the elements, and a strong Hofmeister kink. The E39 had none of those things. The E34 also still had a hand built M5 model, as well as a hand built straight 6 in it. The E39 was the first mass-produced M5, as well as the first V8 powered M car.

And since you brought up steering, the E60 at least has rack and pinion versus the E39's box.

I think it might be the last 5-series that you really like (for whatever reason, you haven't shared) but it not the "last real 5-series".
post #90 of 92
I think that a "real 5-series" is like a "real man." A real man takes care of his lady.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
Styleforum › Forums › Culture › Fine Living, Home, Design & Auto › What do you guys think of the new style BMW 5-Series (F10)?