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2014 MLB Season Thread - Page 162

post #2416 of 3935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo View Post

well, there's a VERY strong argument to be made that without the steroids, he wouldn't be in the top 3 at all.

1. He never failed a steroid test.

2. He would still be 500/500.

3. He would still be lifetime leader in walks and intentional walks.

4. He would be a member of 3,000 hit club instead of 65 hits short.

5. He would still have the incredible string in batting avg. I think we can all agree PEDs if anything have a negative effect on tAV.

6. He would be all time leader in Runs.

7. He would still have 19 Gold Gloves.

8. He would still have more than 3 MVPS, still better than anyone, ever.

No steroids drop him to #3, maybe #5.
post #2417 of 3935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post

1. He never failed a steroid test.

2. He would still be 500/500.

3. He would still be lifetime leader in walks and intentional walks.

4. He would be a member of 3,000 hit club instead of 65 hits short.

5. He would still have the incredible string in batting avg. I think we can all agree PEDs if anything have a negative effect on tAV.

6. He would be all time leader in Runs.

7. He would still have 19 Gold Gloves.

8. He would still have more than 3 MVPS, still better than anyone, ever.

No steroids drop him to #3, maybe #5.

You make some valid points, but leading with #1 makes you come across as a reflexive fanboi and erodes your credibility. I also don't think all of your following points are necessarily true. I do agree he clearly was on a HOF track before bulking up.
post #2418 of 3935
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedLeg View Post

I could argue this both ways. I would argue that a dominant closer is a crucial component to most Championship teams (at least since the 90's).

There's a lurking variable for why this is the case... I've already explained what it would be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post

lol
lol
lol
lol

lol at un-falsifiable claims.
post #2419 of 3935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post

1. He never failed a steroid test.

2. He would still be 500/500.

3. He would still be lifetime leader in walks and intentional walks.

4. He would be a member of 3,000 hit club instead of 65 hits short.

5. He would still have the incredible string in batting avg. I think we can all agree PEDs if anything have a negative effect on tAV.

6. He would be all time leader in Runs.

7. He would still have 19 Gold Gloves.

8. He would still have more than 3 MVPS, still better than anyone, ever.

No steroids drop him to #3, maybe #5.

1 is irrelevant, and you know it. EVERYONE knows it. Doesn't take away from his greatness, just mitigates it.

2 - 8 are all dependent on 1. I most definitely don't think he'd be the career leader in walks, avg, or runs if he wasn't such a home run threat.
post #2420 of 3935
Thread Starter 
Seriously, why do you care about runs as a stat when evaluating a player's performance? Runs and RBIs are the two least important stats ever.
post #2421 of 3935
Quote:
Originally Posted by edinatlanta View Post

Seriously, why do you care about runs as a stat when evaluating a player's performance? Runs and RBIs are the two least important stats ever.

Depending on how you're using them, there's also an element of double-counting as between runs and rbi's unless you back out home runs.
post #2422 of 3935
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

Depending on how you're using them, there's also an element of double-counting as between runs and rbi's unless you back out home runs.

Exactly. When looking at "runs" qua statistic, the only one you can use to evaluate a player's individual performance is a homerun. RBIs just indicate that batters before him got on base.

I don't want everyone to become a sabermatrician, I'm certainly not, but just understand what some of the statistics are actually saying and not just go "well this is on a baseball card so its important.
post #2423 of 3935
Quote:
Originally Posted by edinatlanta View Post

Seriously, why do you care about runs as a stat when evaluating a player's performance? Runs and RBIs are the two least important stats ever.

You're serious?

Runs indicate your hitting ability, what team you play on (important in this day of free agency), your place in the order (a function of your skill set). I could think of others...

Runs batted in are the real measurement of your value to a team. There are players with great home run numbers every year. But their K numbers and tAVs are way below average.

Hank Aaron has the number for RBIs.

Blasphemer!
post #2424 of 3935
Thread Starter 
Dude, Steve B., what I am continually amazed by is how little you understand sports statistics and how routinely you spout off about them and how thoroughly and utterly wrong you are in all your analyses.

What's most amazing is I still can't pull the trigger to ignore you. You're the 22-car pileup where every vehicle is totaled, people likely died yet you still can't help but rubberneck.

ETA: I'm a giver. This is what you're trying to talk about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runs_created.
Also, you have the conceptualization of runs and RBIs backward. Keep up the fail.
post #2425 of 3935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post

You're serious?

Runs indicate your hitting ability, what team you play on (important in this day of free agency), your place in the order (a function of your skill set). I could think of others...

Runs batted in are the real measurement of your value to a team. There are players with great home run numbers every year. But their K numbers and tAVs are way below average.

Hank Aaron has the number for RBIs.

Blasphemer!

I'm all for people having individual preferences and opinions in discussions about sports, but this isn't even internally consistent. You're just throwing out random (often wildly inaccurate) comments.
post #2426 of 3935
Quote:
Originally Posted by edinatlanta View Post

Dude, Steve B., what I am continually amazed by is how little you understand sports statistics and how routinely you spout off about them and how thoroughly and utterly wrong you are in all your analyses.

What's most amazing is I still can't pull the trigger to ignore you. You're the 22-car pileup where every vehicle is totaled, people likely died yet you still can't help but rubberneck.

ETA: I'm a giver. This is what you're trying to talk about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runs_created.
Also, you have the conceptualization of runs and RBIs backward. Keep up the fail.

I found that very interesting. And enlightening. I was all proud of myself for going past 5x5 and then I got in that 22 car pileup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

I'm all for people having individual preferences and opinions in discussions about sports, but this isn't even internally consistent. You're just throwing out random (often wildly inaccurate) comments.

see above.
post #2427 of 3935
Does Lincecum really have a 10+ ERA and 2.20+ WHIP in spring.

Jesus.
post #2428 of 3935
Uh Oh.
post #2429 of 3935

I won't be drafting him

post #2430 of 3935
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedLeg View Post

I won't be drafting him

I kept him so I'm fucked. I could just drop him...

I have good pitchers- Darvish, Lester, Haren, Lincecum, Garza (who I will put on the DL) and sleeper pitcher of the year- Alexi Ogando

And our league has holds so I did an onside kick and picked holders only in rounds where I had 2 picks back to back (we trade draft choices too). Let every body else scrap over saves.

Because our league has 4 keepers, the only decent pitchers available were Darvish, Lee, Latos and Sale in the first round.

Darvish, Sale and Lee went in the first round. Latos in the 2nd or 3rd, Lester in the 6th. I had no 5th round.

I traded it, a 7th, and Martinez for Posey.
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