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Gaining strength vs losing fat - Page 2

post #16 of 58
Aren't Carb Cycling diets supposed to be the best for re-comps?
post #17 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Egert View Post
+1 to this.

I have lost around 13-14kg's (so about 30lbs) over a 2.5 month period while doing cardio and eating at a solid deficit. Now, as I've also done strength training meanwhile and continue doing this, I haven't seen any decline in strength.

And losing muscle with big calorie deficits is something you shouldn't worry about unless your bodyfat percentage is in single digits and you have serious muscle mass.

So,

Keep lifting
Eat at a deficit
Rinse
Repeat
Profit!?

What do you mean "eat at a deficit"? What type of cardio do you do, how often and for how long? I seem to have reached a plateau wirth treadmill. I still don't have a flat stomach. I have not done elliptical. Any advice? Thanks.
post #18 of 58
Edit: @ Jarude

Yeah, it is pretty extreme. I should mention that you should incorporate high-protein (obvious) for both days, especially the low cal/carb day. And, most carbs on the high-carb day should be PWO for obvious reasons.

This works out for me as I prefer to push intensity and work out less. YMMV.
post #19 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by embowafa View Post
Aren't Carb Cycling diets supposed to be the best for re-comps?

Yup.
post #20 of 58
The biggest problem with recomps is that it is really, really easy to lie to yourself. You tell yourself the reason you're not getting stronger is because you're dieting, and the reason you're not losing weight is because you're gaining muscle. It is very easy to spin your wheels for months at a time unless you're paying attention and being honest with yourself.
post #21 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarude View Post
This is 100% utterly and completely wrong. Assuming you're dieting correctly, and lifting at an appropriate intensity/volume level, you can gain strength while losing fat. You won't be putting on size, but if you want to lean out and increase your numbers, this is definitely possible. I want to re-iterate that what the previous poster said is wrong. Not because I want to be right and fuck everything else, but because its possible. Make sure you regulate your intensity. Find what works for you - I found I was only able to do SS until a certain point, then everything stalled. I have currently been leaning out and increasing all my lifts using ironaddict's simple power-based routine. If you're serious about leaning out and getting stronger, go to ironaddicts.com and read up there about how to do it properly. Here, you're gonna get lots of people spitting bro-science.
Congratulations. It's also possible to squat 900lbs and bench 600lbs. Luckily, there are people that have been in this game long enough so they have the ability to understand the context of the question and have the ability to apply the most logical outcome across the majority of people. It is humanly possible? Sure. However, unless you're one of my two examples I listed in my first post, you wont add strength (to any meaningful degree, which I also pointed out above) while losing weight. You might add some lbs to your big 3, but you aren't going to drop 20lbs while simultaneously adding 60lbs to your bench press (again, unless you're a newbie, steroids, or have exceptional genetics).
post #22 of 58
WTF is with all the nonsense? The guy didn't say anything about gaining mass, he talked about gaining strength. Gaining strength and muscle are two different things, even though they generally correlate. OP, gaining strength and losing fat are not conflicting, gaining mass and losing fat are. Go ahead with whatever program you want just make sure you eat calories to lose and set your set/rep range for maximum strength gain.
post #23 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by cross22 View Post
WTF is with all the nonsense? The guy didn't say anything about gaining mass, he talked about gaining strength. Gaining strength and muscle are two completely different things, even though they generally correlate. OP, gaining strength and losing fat are not conflicting, gaining mass and losing fat are. Go ahead with whatever program you want just make sure you eat calories to lose and set your set/rep range for maximum strength gain.
Yea, because we all know that these two are completely unrelated Strength gains, to any meaningful degree, typically come from gaining mass. The only individuals that typically add a lot of strength without adding mass are newbies, genetic freaks, and people using anabolic steroids. He is basically asking "am I going to get a lot stronger while losing weight"? Could your lifts to up a little? Sure, but I'm assuming he's talking about significant strength gains, not adding 10lbs to a lift. The same people always ask these questions and the same thing always happens. The end up in a limbo of bulking and cutting without ever sticking to one or the other long enough to make a difference. They can't grasp the concept that if you want to lose some fat, you might have to sacrifice some strength - or your strength might have to remain stagnant for a bit. People always want the best of both worlds, at all times. Well, you can't always have that. It sucks, but you have to understand that it's a game of give and take.
post #24 of 58
^ Dude what the hell are you talking about? This is what happens when you read magazines all day and have no clue what the hell you are talking about. Spend a few days around powerlifters and olympics weightlifters and you will learn that gaining strength has nothing to do with gaining mass.
post #25 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by suited View Post
poop mouth

Serious mang, throwing out lines like "there are people that have been in this game long enough so they have the ability to understand the context of the question and have the ability to apply the most logical outcome across the majority of people" just makes you look like a douche. Congratulations on being in "the game" long enough to "have the ability to understand the context of the question." Considering you don't even know what he lifts right now, and don't know his situation outside him wanting to get stronger + get leaner, you just sound like an ignorant dickbag.

Your argument sucks. Saying "sure, you might add some lbs to your big 3" - well, thanks for proving my point. Obviously people aren't going to make ironclad progress on every single exercise every single time on a deficit - I don't think people are going to be sad about missing a few curls if their squat/DL is still improving while getting leaner. Furthermore, I was under the impression that gaining strength referred to your big 3 going up - thank you again.

Speaking in general (applying the logical outcome across the majority of people), you can gain significant strength past newbie gains and without anabolics on a deficit. Yeah, if you wanna squat 900, you're going to need some mass. You're taking it to an extreme degree in your "understanding of the context of the question" - yeah, if you want to gain elite strength over a long period of time, a deficit might not be beneficial. There is a middle ground between "10 lbs on a lift" and squatting 900 pounds. Proper dieting + appropriate exercise = sustainable strength gains until you hit single digit BF.

Are you just mad, had a bad personal experience, or what? Countless respected strength coaches, athletes, and other authorities on the topic (not bodybuilding.com) have repeatedly affirmed the fact that significant strength gains on caloric deficits are possible, unless your BF is really low already. Considering the tone of your post, I'm gonna go with "u mad" and leave it at that.

edit: re-reading your post, its clear you really don't have an understanding of the context of the question or however you so irritatingly put it. Nobody said they were going to drop 20lbs and add 60lbs to their bench - you're giving poor examples. You're confusing "significant" with "unrealistic." Again, considering you essentially agreed with me while claiming I was wrong because massive - not significant - strength gains aren't feasible on a deficit. You also did so in a manner that makes you look like a fuck. Congrats.
post #26 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by cross22 View Post
gaining strength has nothing to do with gaining mass.
If nothing else, this is absolute proof that you have no idea what you're talking about, and probably very little actual experience yourself. For the average joe in the gym, gaining strength is highly correlated to gaining mass. Again, we're talking about significant strength gains, not adding a few pounds to a lift. Based on the logic you've provided thus far, the answer to every single bb or pl question should be "yes", simply because someone, somewhere has done it before (in this case, mostly professional athletes). The average person in the gym is not going to add a ton of strength while on a cut, bottom line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cross22 View Post
Spend a few days around power lifters and Olympic weightlifters
Olympic weightlifters? Now you're comparing the average joe to the most genetically and athletically gifted people on the planet while simultaneously posing as a beacon of practical advice?
post #27 of 58
If the guy who lives to get stronger does so without...

Oh fuck it.
post #28 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cary Grant View Post
Jarude is correct. The process (often referred to as a re-composition/re-comp) is not one for those seeking immediate gratification but is also generally simpler to maintain. Lean mass CAN be added, but slowly and only if you get the balance of diet versus workout just right, and this is where most fail- a true recomp won't happen with a casual approach to your diet and workout.

I like your username


Piggybacking on this topic, a friend told me that doing cardio after you life is good for the "losing fat" part, while the lifting is obviously getting you stronger. Is this effective if done 3x a week with a good diet?
post #29 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexWb View Post
I like your username


Piggybacking on this topic, a friend told me that doing cardio after you life is good for the "losing fat" part, while the lifting is obviously getting you stronger. Is this effective if done 3x a week with a good diet?

If your good diet involves limiting food intake enough to cause a deficit.
post #30 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradstudent78 View Post
If your good diet involves limiting food intake enough to cause a deficit.

I see. Thank you
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