Batman: Dark Knight Rises (movie thread)

[Saturdays]



All in all I am disappointed in Nolan's trilogy and choice of villains, apart from The Joker obviously. In my opinion the Batman comics have one of the greatest villains as far as comics go because they're so complex and human, especially Harvey Dent and Mr Freeze. You never got to see any of that in these films, in my opinion 'Batman: The Animated Series' from the 90s was way better than this. The only redeeming thing about Nolan is he is not Schumacher.

Ra's al Ghul

The Joker


Batman's most notorious villains. Including Ra's al Ghul was a huge win in Batman Begins.

Nolan wants to take a more controlled approach. After Burton 's movies the other two were just means to group up flashy villains. Nolan is adding a much better story that people actually care about. He doesn't need the Scarecrow to actually dress up as a scarecrow to convey how he is a villain. He doesn't need Two-Face to have a 1hr 45min story line. Frankly, Bruce couldn't become close friends and etc.. with Harvey in such a short time, it wouldn't be right. As complex as Harvey is, no film can capture what over 5 decades of comics can.

In regards to Freeze being in one of these movies, it would be so 'fake' in the world Nolan created. The enemies in Nolan's Batman are not 'super' they don't have special powers or elaborate stories that consist of metaphysical changes to their bodies and weapons that are governments have not even began to start the schematics of. Nolan is doing things pretty well. If you've seen any of his movies you would know he knows how to compile a great script and translate it into a great movie.

If there is one thing he is doing right, its that he is not focusing on 2-3 Villains at the same time in the movies. Its more like a sub-villain, and a super-villain who takes the main focus. Batman Begins: Scarecrow and Ra's al Ghul - The Dark Knight: Harvey Dent/Two Face and the Joker.

He's not interested in making 10 Batman movies, he's interested in conveying a story that finishes and has some sort of conclusion.

 

[Jr Mouse]

+1 to both of you.

 

[RFX45]

 

[embowafa]

Damn...Bane might end up being the most badass villain yet.

Who cares if he doesn't look like Ronnie Coleman or Jay Cutler.

 

[Anthony K]

I'm loving those scans!

 

[Jr Mouse]



I'm loving those scans!

Yup. They look great. Also shows why you can't judge this stuff from out of context spy shots.

 

[pseudonym]

Read Hardy's own description of Bane. It seems he's got the character down perfectly.

You all already know this: TDKR happens 8 years after TDK. I'm going to assume that Batman goes away for a bit before having to re-emerge to take on Bane.

 

[gort]

That explains the whole dialogue between Gordon and Bruce Wayne in the teaser. Batman's been gone for 8 years.

 

[Jr Mouse]

I hope my pet theory that we might get a bunch of little cameos from the "freaks" comes true. No major roles, but if it's 8 years in the future it would be cool to see some of the other villains running around. If they pull a Knightfall and Bane breaks everyone out of prison, then it would be a great opportunity to do so.

 

[Philip]



Ra's al Ghul
The Joker
Batman's most notorious villains. Including Ra's al Ghul was a huge win in Batman Begins.
Nolan wants to take a more controlled approach. After Burton 's movies the other two were just means to group up flashy villains. Nolan is adding a much better story that people actually care about. He doesn't need the Scarecrow to actually dress up as a scarecrow to convey how he is a villain. He doesn't need Two-Face to have a 1hr 45min story line. Frankly, Bruce couldn't become close friends and etc.. with Harvey in such a short time, it wouldn't be right. As complex as Harvey is, no film can capture what over 5 decades of comics can.
In regards to Freeze being in one of these movies, it would be so 'fake' in the world Nolan created. The enemies in Nolan's Batman are not 'super' they don't have special powers or elaborate stories that consist of metaphysical changes to their bodies and weapons that are governments have not even began to start the schematics of. Nolan is doing things pretty well. If you've seen any of his movies you would know he knows how to compile a great script and translate it into a great movie.
If there is one thing he is doing right, its that he is not focusing on 2-3 Villains at the same time in the movies. Its more like a sub-villain, and a super-villain who takes the main focus. Batman Begins: Scarecrow and Ra's al Ghul - The Dark Knight: Harvey Dent/Two Face and the Joker.
He's not interested in making 10 Batman movies, he's interested in conveying a story that finishes and has some sort of conclusion.

That's not actually what i want from the villains. In past adaptations I always took them to be very sympathetic characters that were more tragic than psychopathic, but you're right in saying that there wouldn't be enough time to explore something like that. Also knowing Nolan I think he definitely could've found a way to make Freeze a very realistic character just as he has found a way for the villains he's used. However I guess my arguments are pointless because I'm expecting something from Nolan that he is not known for and that is strong dialogue.

I think Nolan did Dent well for what he had. The main villain was pretty much the Joker and losing screen time for more development of Dent would have taken away a lot from the movie. Plus it was better that Dent was with Rachel and Bruce's rival for her but Batman's "friend". Plus if Dent were kept alive,t he ending wouldn't make sense in TDK, which again will kill the movie.
I don't think Dent was under developed either, they gave him enough screen time to see that he has a dark side as well when kidnapped that one dude and threatened to kill him. I really felt like they did him just fine in the film. You just can't give everyone a dedicated screen time for the limitation you get in films.
I honestly do not even know why you bring Mr. Freeze like it is Nolans fault when he has absolutely nothing to do with Schumachers crapfest.

I only mention Freeze because I thought he would've been a great choice for this rebuff

 

[Lionheart Biker]

Tom hardy is so huge I´m actually a little sacred. Dude, that´s one big ass dude. Badassery +1000

 

[RFX45]

I just can't see Nolan making Mr. Freeze work. The villains he has used have all been plausible in real life and that is also what made Begins very interesting, he took a more realistic approach, each equipment and gear he has on was somewhat introduced and explained and real plausible. But Mr. Freeze w/o a gun that freezes things just isn't Mr. Freeze, the tech is just very far fetch from reality. Plus keeping your body "frozen/cold" to stay alive is even more ridiculous.

If you were to make a "realistic" freak villain, the Penguin would have been perfect. I like what Burton did with him w/o making him a meta human.

 

[Philip]

valid point, but did you ever think The Joker could've been The Joker without falling into a pit of acid before Nolan? Nolan prescribes different points of transitions for his villains that characterise them more realistically and I think he could've done the same with Freeze.

 

[RFX45]



valid point, but did you ever think The Joker could've been The Joker without falling into a pit of acid before Nolan? Nolan prescribes different points of transitions for his villains that characterise them more realistically and I think he could've done the same with Freeze.

Yah but Joker doesn't an unrealistic weapon as such, I guess you can call Ra's fear weapon a bit unrealistic (turning water into steam/air) but it is more believable. Plus the Joker origins were kept intact, Joker could just be an insane man with make-up. He is one of the villains that doesn't require a backstory and still make everything work well for him. They even played it for the movie by telling different stories on how he got the scar, it's part of him.

While with Mr. Freeze, he has to be in an ice suit or else he just wouldn't be Mr. freeze the same Bane needs that mask. Take the mask off and it isn't Bane, he altered it but a mask is a simple and realistic accessory, even if it is his inhalator in the film, it is within the realm of possibility. As for a suit that keeps you cold to keep you alive? Not so much. Sure Nolan can make Freeze a pale guy that has a cold skin but even then it's reaching too far out of the realm of reality, it'll be more like Edward Cullen than Victor Fries. Bane is also more realistic with how he fights, he is a wrestlers/brawlers and tactical genius, Mr. Freeze freezes things. Joker plays mind games and actually fights with guns, Mr. Freeze.... freezes things. It's just really difficult to make it fit in the Batman world Nolan created.

 

[Philip]



Yah but Joker doesn't an unrealistic weapon as such, I guess you can call Ra's fear weapon a bit unrealistic (turning water into steam/air) but it is more believable. Plus the Joker origins were kept intact, Joker could just be an insane man with make-up. He is one of the villains that doesn't require a backstory and still make everything work well for him. They even played it for the movie by telling different stories on how he got the scar, it's part of him.
While with Mr. Freeze, he has to be in an ice suit or else he just wouldn't be Mr. freeze the same Bane needs that mask. Take the mask off and it isn't Bane, he altered it but a mask is a simple and realistic accessory, even if it is his inhalator in the film, it is within the realm of possibility. As for a suit that keeps you cold to keep you alive? Not so much. Sure Nolan can make Freeze a pale guy that has a cold skin but even then it's reaching too far out of the realm of reality, it'll be more like Edward Cullen than Victor Fries. Bane is also more realistic with how he fights, he is a wrestlers/brawlers and tactical genius, Mr. Freeze freezes things. Joker plays mind games and actually fights with guns, Mr. Freeze.... freezes things. It's just really difficult to make it fit in the Batman world Nolan created.

Still don't fully agree on you with that point but I just realised a different point on why he wouldn't be good. action-wise (which is the only thing Nolan is good at) there is not much to write with Freeze.