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Custom White's Boots ... Thoughts? - Page 198

post #2956 of 5294

Cat, post some photos when you get your pair, found this Nick's boots photo and it really look fantastic.

post #2957 of 5294
Can someone please point me to a pic or two from the gallery with the following sole configuration?

- Single leather
- No half slip
- Vib composition half sole or Commando mini lug half sole
- Close trim
- Standard (Cuban) heel
- Standard heel lifts

TIA. smile.gif
post #2958 of 5294
What is this Norwegian welt business? It says all over White's website that they're stitch down. I know that hathorn and some of the White's vintage line use goodyear welting or what have you - but the White's boots line is all stitch down.

I don't know what this separate stitching means either. Seems like a lot of speculation and conjecture.
Edited by RickyTylerson - 1/27/14 at 3:14pm
post #2959 of 5294
I do know that White's uses rapid E machines for their soles( I've been there and seen them in action. ) However I don't know if they have double needles or if that's even possible on a rapid e.
post #2960 of 5294

I was disappointed that Epaulet's recent Navy Chromexcel Alden captoe boot makeup sold out in my size (and wasn't available in an E, anyway). And then I found this thread.....:bounce2:

post #2961 of 5294

I have a rough out horsehide belt and a dopp kit made by Dustin. He makes quality stuff, I didn't realize that the boots were made by Nicks.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by misterjuiceman View Post
 

I wouldn't say impeccable, but it looks like they're doing each row separately, like Viberg does, since the rows run together toward the tip of the toe. I wonder if they do a figure eight for the half-slip or if they'll just do it without any extra stitching or tacks like White's does.

 

post #2962 of 5294
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickyTylerson View Post

I do know that White's uses rapid E machines for their soles( I've been there and seen them in action. ) However I don't know if they have double needles or if that's even possible on a rapid e.

The double row of sole stitching on White's is definitely done in two steps (each row of stitching separately). I have seen a lot of sewing machines in my day, and I have never seen a double needle machine that sews unequal length stitches with each needle. I would feel comfortable saying it is almost impossible.

As for the welt. Wesco and Viberg use the same type of construction where the outer layer of leather in the vamp is folded out and pressed flat and stitched to the sole. White's sews a strip of leather to the vamp, and this strip is folded out and stitched to the sole. Somewhere many pages back someone posted the technical name for these two different methods. I have no idea what the terms are, but I own several pairs of both Wesco and White's and the construction methods are not the same for both companies. On the Wescos you can see the cut in the outer layer of leather under the arch where the toe of the vamp is folded out, and then stops at the arch at the cut and from there back the outer leather layer is folded under. White's don't have this due to the different method of construction.
post #2963 of 5294
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy b. View Post


The double row of sole stitching on White's is definitely done in two steps (each row of stitching separately). I have seen a lot of sewing machines in my day, and I have never seen a double needle machine that sews unequal length stitches with each needle. I would feel comfortable saying it is almost impossible.

The radius of the stitching for each row is different, so I think this would account for the difference in stitch lengths between the two rows. As far as I know, you could avoid this by single needle stitching each row.

post #2964 of 5294
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy b. View Post


The double row of sole stitching on White's is definitely done in two steps (each row of stitching separately). I have seen a lot of sewing machines in my day, and I have never seen a double needle machine that sews unequal length stitches with each needle. I would feel comfortable saying it is almost impossible.

As for the welt. Wesco and Viberg use the same type of construction where the outer layer of leather in the vamp is folded out and pressed flat and stitched to the sole. White's sews a strip of leather to the vamp, and this strip is folded out and stitched to the sole. Somewhere many pages back someone posted the technical name for these two different methods. I have no idea what the terms are, but I own several pairs of both Wesco and White's and the construction methods are not the same for both companies. On the Wescos you can see the cut in the outer layer of leather under the arch where the toe of the vamp is folded out, and then stops at the arch at the cut and from there back the outer leather layer is folded under. White's don't have this due to the different method of construction.

This is my first post on SF.  When Nicks sews the soles on these, they use a Rapid E 317 long stitch cam sole stitcher.  Each row is sewn individually.  The first row, closest to the vamp or upper, contacts the the awl guard on the stitcher which is in place to keep the awl from damaging the boot upper as its pushed in to the machine.  The guard creates a little bit of resistance, hence the tad bit smaller stitches right close to the vamp.  The boots I'm doing with Nicks are a stitch down construction, where the upper or vamp is pulled over the last then cemented to the mid sole followed by the stitching which will go through the vamp, mid sole, and out sole.  Nicks, Whites, Wesco, Viberg, Hawthorn all use their own take on the Stitch Down boot, the main difference being how they attach the insole board.  

 

Whites and Nicks also make boots using a rolled Norwegian Welt where a thin piece of leather is HAND sewn through the vamp and into the insole board at about a 40deg angle to attach the vamp to the insole.  The thin piece of leather is then folded over the vamp/insole stitch to cover it and protect it from water and dirt.  This construction gives the best fit, but it comes with a price... High $ from the hand sewing and they are WAY stiff for casual wear.  

 

I am meeting with Nicks later this week to place a stock order and go over future projects.  Let me know if you have any questions or if you would like me to run anything by Nicks as far as specific build needs.

Dustin

post #2965 of 5294
Quote:
Originally Posted by VermilyeaPelle View Post
 

This is my first post on SF.  When Nicks sews the soles on these, they use a Rapid E 317 long stitch cam sole stitcher.  Each row is sewn individually.  The first row, closest to the vamp or upper, contacts the the awl guard on the stitcher which is in place to keep the awl from damaging the boot upper as its pushed in to the machine.  The guard creates a little bit of resistance, hence the tad bit smaller stitches right close to the vamp.  The boots I'm doing with Nicks are a stitch down construction, where the upper or vamp is pulled over the last then cemented to the mid sole followed by the stitching which will go through the vamp, mid sole, and out sole.  Nicks, Whites, Wesco, Viberg, Hawthorn all use their own take on the Stitch Down boot, the main difference being how they attach the insole board.  

 

Whites and Nicks also make boots using a rolled Norwegian Welt where a thin piece of leather is HAND sewn through the vamp and into the insole board at about a 40deg angle to attach the vamp to the insole.  The thin piece of leather is then folded over the vamp/insole stitch to cover it and protect it from water and dirt.  This construction gives the best fit, but it comes with a price... High $ from the hand sewing and they are WAY stiff for casual wear.  

 

I am meeting with Nicks later this week to place a stock order and go over future projects.  Let me know if you have any questions or if you would like me to run anything by Nicks as far as specific build needs.

Dustin

If you're interested, you should create a Nick's boots thread. There's not much info on here (or anywhere) about them, and some pictures and info would be great.

post #2966 of 5294
Quote:
Originally Posted by VermilyeaPelle View Post
 

This is my first post on SF.  When Nicks sews the soles on these, they use a Rapid E 317 long stitch cam sole stitcher.  Each row is sewn individually.  The first row, closest to the vamp or upper, contacts the the awl guard on the stitcher which is in place to keep the awl from damaging the boot upper as its pushed in to the machine.  The guard creates a little bit of resistance, hence the tad bit smaller stitches right close to the vamp.  The boots I'm doing with Nicks are a stitch down construction, where the upper or vamp is pulled over the last then cemented to the mid sole followed by the stitching which will go through the vamp, mid sole, and out sole.  Nicks, Whites, Wesco, Viberg, Hawthorn all use their own take on the Stitch Down boot, the main difference being how they attach the insole board.  

 

Whites and Nicks also make boots using a rolled Norwegian Welt where a thin piece of leather is HAND sewn through the vamp and into the insole board at about a 40deg angle to attach the vamp to the insole.  The thin piece of leather is then folded over the vamp/insole stitch to cover it and protect it from water and dirt.  This construction gives the best fit, but it comes with a price... High $ from the hand sewing and they are WAY stiff for casual wear.  

 

I am meeting with Nicks later this week to place a stock order and go over future projects.  Let me know if you have any questions or if you would like me to run anything by Nicks as far as specific build needs.

Dustin

Seconding misterjuiceman's suggestion. I just PM'd you, but would love to have all this info be public

post #2967 of 5294
some great informative posts in this thread recently. thanks.
post #2968 of 5294
Quote:
Originally Posted by VermilyeaPelle View Post

 

I am meeting with Nicks later this week to place a stock order and go over future projects.  Let me know if you have any questions or if you would like me to run anything by Nicks as far as specific build needs.

Dustin

 

The two Nick's boots you have on your site now really look great, and very different from other Nick's boots that I've seen, which seem much more Western and pointy toed.  I am sure you could get some interest here for more boots along those lines.  Two questions I would say for your meeting with Nick's:  1.  Any chance of getting Horsehide?  2.  How about a sprung toe?

 

Thanks for all this info!

post #2969 of 5294

could you ask nicks if they could do a soft toe oxford?

http://www.porhomme.com/2011/10/superdenim-x-viberg-145-oxford/

post #2970 of 5294

Fedex delivered a box from Baker's yesterday. :-)

 

New bounty hunters on the left, not so new SJs on the right: 

 

A few more of the new ones:

 

 

 

 

And the build:


Custom White's Smoke Jumper
Counter Leather Natural Chrome Excel by Horween, Hardware Antique Eyes & Hooks, Celastic Toe Box Single Celastic Toe, Height 8", Last Semi Dress (Bounty Hunter), Steel Toe No Thanks, Upper (Shaft) Leather Natural Chrome Excel by Horween, Toe Cap No Thanks, Toe Vamp Leather Natural Chrome Excel by Horween, Top Cut Top (standard), Midsole Single, Leather Liner Cream, Size - Width D (medium), Lace Design Plain Toe, Sole Vibram 430 Mini Vib, Toe Cap Leather Color Does not apply, Edge Brown, Size - Length 9, Sole Trim Close Trim


Edited by 2eleven - 1/28/14 at 3:28pm
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