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*** Official F/w 2011 Runway Thread *** - Page 16

post #226 of 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by thekunk07 View Post
very very well said.
+1 Maybe that's the idea? A throwback to finish on.
post #227 of 368
too bad
post #228 of 368
i think the idea has been dead since 07

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razele View Post
+1

Maybe that's the idea?

A throwback to finish on.
post #229 of 368
Saw some pics of Damir on fb. What is going on with the clown boots.
post #230 of 368
post #231 of 368
Why was this on the second page? I want everything in the Plokhov video, and I might kill someone for that parka
post #232 of 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by bows1 View Post
Why was this on the second page? I want everything in the Plokhov video, and I might kill someone for that parka
The Plokhov video was interesting. It's like he took his earliest, tailoring inspired collections, which sort of geek-chic, and then mixed it up with the styling that he apparently learned from Robert Geller (according to people who have worked with both, Plokhov was the tailoring guy, but the guy who really understood zeitgeist was Geller, ironically.) The collections that people rave about, like Cloak 04, apparently, were highly influenced by Geller. I'm pretty interested in seeing the full collection. Definitely looks like stuff I'll wear. Maybe I'll wear Phlokov and Geller together and see if the pieces don't explode from the supposed conflict between the two. Raf, I dunno. I never liked his stuff, neither his early protest and youth subculture collections, which I found to be juvenile, at best, nor his later futurist collections, which, for me, seemed to have been stuck in a 60's cheesy movie version of 2010. I mean, neoprene boleros and velcro?
post #233 of 368
I'm glad Raf is dead. And I'm psyched for new Plokhov. The jacket ~35s looks pretty sweet.
post #234 of 368
^Agreed... actually a lot of it does. The coat at 2:15 is pure Synthese. Now awaiting announcement of Robert Geller x Alexandre Plokhov collab pieces.
post #235 of 368
My wallet is safe this year.
post #236 of 368
Thread Starter 
I want a polka dot CdG jacket.
post #237 of 368
okay i don't like the FW2011/2012 either, but i don't get the raf simons hate, the FW 09 collection, the current season and the ss2011 zipper clothes are really cool, yeah they gimmicky, but that's nothing bad, most of the clothes are not "overdesigned" , the newer collections were far more interesting than the early juvenile stuff. what i like about him is that he is not predictable like most of the other designers

furthermore i don't that he's "dead" he just has to find a different company which produces his stuff, thats not that hard
post #238 of 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeemon View Post
okay i don't like the FW2011/2012 either, but i don't get the raf simons hate, the FW 09 collection, the current season and the ss2011 zipper clothes are really cool, yeah they gimmicky, but that's nothing bad, most of the clothes are not "overdesigned" , the newer collections were far more interesting than the early juvenile stuff. what i like about him is that he is not predictable like most of the other designers

furthermore i don't that he's "dead" he just has to find a different company which produces his stuff, thats not that hard

Umm...to keep this thread civil let's just say that I respectfully disagree.

In terms of the "hate" currently being directed at Raf, I personally see it more as a manifestation of the extreme level of disappointment people feel for his current direction and (lack of) vision. Whether or not you liked or personally subscribed to the early Raf Simons aesthetic I believe (hope) most would feel there was a clear sense of direction (i.e. classic tailoring / items as the constant with the modifier being the youth movement du jour). Furthermore, the end result was, at the very least, interesting. Now (for the past few seasons) the sense of aesthetic direction is clearly gone...replaced with a gimmick of the season instead of an idea. Whether the end result is anything interesting is highly debatable.

To be continued...
post #239 of 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeemon View Post
okay i don't like the FW2011/2012 either, but i don't get the raf simons hate, the FW 09 collection, the current season and the ss2011 zipper clothes are really cool, yeah they gimmicky, but that's nothing bad, most of the clothes are not "overdesigned" , the newer collections were far more interesting than the early juvenile stuff. what i like about him is that he is not predictable like most of the other designers

furthermore i don't that he's "dead" he just has to find a different company which produces his stuff, thats not that hard


Agree with Platypus, definitely more a matter of disappointment than hate I think. Here're some good reads to get a better perespective of things.


http://www.papercoffin.com/writing/articles/simons.html

http://hapsical.blogspot.com/2010/04...rilliance.html



.
post #240 of 368
...continued:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeemon View Post
...the newer collections were far more interesting than the early juvenile stuff.

I know I sort of addressed this in my previous post, but...really???

I'm uncertain of exactly what you refer to as the "early juvenile stuff" (and I'll admit, if you are going to make that argument there is quite a bit you could call upon). However, I'd argue that applying a negative connotation to juvenile is not just or appropriate in this case:

His actual early stuff (let's say 1995 to 2000) combines classic tailoring and real technical skill with a backdrop of some youth culture movements. I feel the precise, sharp, slim tailoring is at the forefront in these collections. If you ignore the coats and suits and focus on the few band shirts etc. then you are missing the point. Hedi (Dior Homme) is often credited with bringing in the really slim cut, but Raf started doing it before him. As a personal aside, check out FW98/99 and FW99/00 (probably my favorite menswear collections full stop)...sooo good!

From 2000/01 to 2005 there was a bit a move away from the precise, slim cut to a slightly wider, oversize silhouette and a greater emphasis on representing the chosen cultural and / or political influence. This is probably where most of the "juvenile" comments come in (with the oversize garments, patches, slogans, straps, distressing, etc.). However, I feel those details are more than matched by interesting fabric choices and good (if wider) cuts. A lot of these elements (such as the oversize clothes) are still being used by other designers. Again, as an aside, I feel that SS02 was a truly impressive runway show / representation of the times.

From 2005 to 2006 / 2007 / or 2008 (depending on how you see it) was the last time Raf had both a proper vision and the execution to back it up. With SS05 he returned to manipulating classic tailoring (for example; the voluminous pants he used on multiple occasions). FW06 (another of my favs) brought a touch of futurism that, IMO, was not a caricature of "the future" (something which is difficult to avoid). After that, one could argue when it went downhill. SS07 was simple, FW07 was a more business-like approach to the futurism idea, and SS08 was interesting if not my personal taste (though the whole high-fashion-hiker look is still being mined today). None of them were juvenile though.

From 2008, it was all about hollow imitations / throwbacks of older items and one note gimmicks. All this built upon a foundation of boring business-esque wear (and the price to quality ratio took a hit or was exposed as poor however you chose to look at it).
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