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Steroids! - Page 3

post #31 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRogers
Go to www.1fast400.com and search posts for methandione, AKA "Superdrol"
SD is an extremely toxic and strong steriod that as of a couple months ago was legally available online for 19.99. When I would frequent the board regularly, there were always kids around 15-16yo asking for proper dosages and how SD should be taken. Chances are that despite everyone telling them to not use SD they did anyway because they needed to "bulk up for tryouts" or were 130 lbs soaking wet.
Even after years of cycling experience, a 3 week cycle of this stuff at the recommended dosage was terrible. Without a doubt the harshest and most toxic drug I've ever taken. Many many others have had the same experience. Lowerback pain, extreme lethargy, appetite suppression, decreased libido, hair loss etc. My nephews tell me that kids in his HS are eating this stuff up like crazy since there's still some in circulation. The damage they must be doing to their developing bodies is incredible.
MrR

--- I'll stick firmly behind what I have stated. You are citing examples of abuse and wth a really dumb steroids to take. Legal or Illegal? It's not that simple, either way kids are going to try to get an edge, kids speed, that have unprotected sex, they do alot of risky behaviors, it doesn't matter legal or not. If you can show me a study that kids (what age, demographic etc) use steroids more because it would be legal "for appropritate adults" which you can't, it still doesn't change what we are discussing here.


The side effects do not apply to the class, and there are alot of variables with side effects. Now imagine, if they were under a doctor supervision, lab tests, and taking the say deca, low androgen/highly anabolic. This would be insane from a social standpoint, but if they are goign to do it anyway, at least they would be eliminating most of the risk, and maximizing.

Again, taking street drugs, anabolic or otherwise is a very risky behavior.
post #32 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRogers
Go to www.1fast400.com and search posts for methandione, AKA "Superdrol"
SD is an extremely toxic and strong steriod that as of a couple months ago was legally available online for 19.99. When I would frequent the board regularly, there were always kids around 15-16yo asking for proper dosages and how SD should be taken. Chances are that despite everyone telling them to not use SD they did anyway because they needed to "bulk up for tryouts" or were 130 lbs soaking wet.
Even after years of cycling experience, a 3 week cycle of this stuff at the recommended dosage was terrible. Without a doubt the harshest and most toxic drug I've ever taken. Many many others have had the same experience. Lowerback pain, extreme lethargy, appetite suppression, decreased libido, hair loss etc. My nephews tell me that kids in his HS are eating this stuff up like crazy since there's still some in circulation. The damage they must be doing to their developing bodies is incredible.

MrR
If the safer compounds were available at low (legal) risk, do you think kids would still be trying to use the more dangerous ones?
post #33 of 48
yeah, giving the power of god to a 16 year old never works out too good.
post #34 of 48
Well we already let them drive 6000lb invulnerable tanks around the streets with near impunity, what's a little needle in the scheme of things?
post #35 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soph
--- I'll stick firmly behind what I have stated. You are citing examples of abuse and wth a really dumb steroids to take. Legal or Illegal? It's not that simple, either way kids are going to try to get an edge, kids speed, that have unprotected sex, they do alot of risky behaviors, it doesn't matter legal or not. If you can show me a study that kids (what age, demographic etc) use steroids more because it would be legal "for appropritate adults" which you can't, it still doesn't change what we are discussing here. The side effects do not apply to the class, and there are alot of variables with side effects. Now imagine, if they were under a doctor supervision, lab tests, and taking the say deca, low androgen/highly anabolic. This would be insane from a social standpoint, but if they are goign to do it anyway, at least they would be eliminating most of the risk, and maximizing. Again, taking street drugs, anabolic or otherwise is a very risky behavior.
You speak pretty strongly on this topic soph despite having no experience whatsoever with any of these compounds. A study proving that kids would take AAS if it became legal? I'm a huge research hound myself but I doubt that such as matter has been sufficiently investigated by anyone; if it has, I dont have the time or the inclination to search for it and show you. My post is a reflection of what I see going on in the fitness community, not what I think would happen. Of course there are variants regarding appearance/severity of side effects, however 17-AA compounds such as SD are known to be toxic to the liver and shut down test production. The degree to which this occurs of course varies, however, the properties of the drug don't change. You cite Deca over and over again as a "low androgenic/high anabolic drug" yet i've seen plenty of people develop gyno from even low doses. Ever heard of "deca dick?" Another commonly experienced side effect even at low dosages. Just because its not listed on steriods101.com "side effects" doesn't mean its not true. If there is a relatively safe steriod its EQ or andriol. Under a docs supervision? Another idea thats great in fantasy land. Work with a doc on monitoring your bloods during a cycle. See what he tells you to do if you develop gyno in the middle of the cycle. You think hes going to prescribe you an anti-e? Most docs are so ignorant when it comes to AAS its incredible they have the degrees that they do. I'm not saying this out of disrespect to docs but rather what I have seen and experienced first hand. MrR
post #36 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by j
If the safer compounds were available at low (legal) risk, do you think kids would still be trying to use the more dangerous ones?
J, most of the kids I come across who use will use anything available. However, most tend to go with oral substances over injectables, despite the inj being less harmful. It is ironic though that stuff like methandione is legal while much safer drugs are illegal. I'll even admit that when I tried methandione I had read up on it quite a bit, but still couldnt believe the effects it had on me; even at a low dose. I did gain about 15 lbs (mostly bloat) in ten days however. My pops and brother are infectious disease physicians and were commenting to me a while back about how many cases they saw this past summer in which young HS kids, and adults for that matter, had developed abcesses from injecting either dirty gear, reusing needles, not prepping the site, etc. MrR
post #37 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by j
Well we already let them drive 6000lb invulnerable tanks around the streets with near impunity, what's a little needle in the scheme of things?

lol, you got a point there.
post #38 of 48
mr. rogers, informative stuff.

my opinion is that people are people and if the technology exists, people will do whatever it takes to obtain these substances--especially kids and young adults.

i know somebody in queens who sold illegal steroids for a living, made a lot of money, too. he was also a heavy user and was HUGE. he even juiced his pitbull. anyways, a couple years ago he died. he was in his mid 30s, his body had had enough. i'm sure he knew all the risks and hazards, but it didn't matter.
post #39 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizanation
mr. rogers, informative stuff.

my opinion is that people are people and if the technology exists, people will do whatever it takes to obtain these substances--especially kids and young adults.

i know somebody in queens who sold illegal steroids for a living, made a lot of money, too. he was also a heavy user and was HUGE. he even juiced his pitbull. anyways, a couple years ago he died. he was in his mid 30s, his body had had enough. i'm sure he knew all the risks and hazards, but it didn't matter.


Sad case miz. Alot of times its the lifestyle that gets these guys. Most heavy users and certainly dealers dabble in rec drugs themselves. Guy I was good friends with during my heyday was no exception. He used (abused) for close to a decade but was also addicted to nubain and used alot of other rec drugs (coke, k, e, etc) He finally od'd on coke and checked out in his early 30's. Wasn't the AAS that killed him per se but the lifestyle certainly did him in. I grew up in Long Island and there were alot of these shady guys around.

MrR
post #40 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRogers
You speak pretty strongly on this topic soph despite having no experience whatsoever with any of these compounds. A study proving that kids would take AAS if it became legal? I'm a huge research hound myself but I doubt that such as matter has been sufficiently investigated by anyone; if it has, I dont have the time or the inclination to search for it and show you. My post is a reflection of what I see going on in the fitness community, not what I think would happen.

Of course there are variants regarding appearance/severity of side effects, however 17-AA compounds such as SD are known to be toxic to the liver and shut down test production. The degree to which this occurs of course varies, however, the properties of the drug don't change. You cite Deca over and over again as a "low androgenic/high anabolic drug" yet i've seen plenty of people develop gyno from even low doses. Ever heard of "deca dick?" Another commonly experienced side effect even at low dosages. Just because its not listed on steriods101.com "side effects" doesn't mean its not true. If there is a relatively safe steriod its EQ or andriol.

Under a docs supervision? Another idea thats great in fantasy land. Work with a doc on monitoring your bloods during a cycle. See what he tells you to do if you develop gyno in the middle of the cycle. You think hes going to prescribe you an anti-e? Most docs are so ignorant when it comes to AAS its incredible they have the degrees that they do. I'm not saying this out of disrespect to docs but rather what I have seen and experienced first hand.

MrR

1. What you see going on around you. Well whomever you see isn't real bright. Deca is cited due to the potential benefits also not just the risks. If you are going to do this you want results also.

2. Again, under a 'docs' supervision I stated socially would never be.

3. Any user who has even the slightly bit of knowledge uses clomid, nolvadex, HCG-, Fertodor (cyclofenil)-off cycle, stilbesterol derivates. If you get gyno from deca you're an idiot and shouldn't be 'abusing' anyway. 'Deca Dick' please, and this has what to do with what argument?. It's called Viagra. Deca doesn't not alter your test levels enough to affect sexual drive to cause impotence; it's something else. You have no data other than yea, my gym buddy says so and I've seen lots of guys say's Deca makes them ED. I've seen guys do alot of dumb stuff because of this street MD shit. It's a vascular event for the most part.

4. I would agree, 99% -pure estimate but I know alot of physicians0alot- of physicians hanven't a clue, but think they do. I doubt most even know what the difference between deca and anadrol is. The only cases they see are trainwrecks where some idiot took anadrol 50 for like 6 months etc or something equally stupid and along with the media it reinforces their bad steroid mentality. These is no steroid class in med school. Only endo's have a clue and sport medicine.
post #41 of 48
1. What you see going on around you. Well whomever you see isn't real bright. Deca is cited due to the potential benefits also not just the risks. If you are going to do this you want results also.

-These guys arent bright because they started to develop gyno from low doses of Deca??? Yes I agree, Deca is cited as probably the safest AAS. What you see on paper doesn't always transfer to real life.

2. Again, under a 'docs' supervision I stated socially would never be.

-Least we agree on that.

3. Any user who has even the slightly bit of knowledge uses clomid, nolvadex, HCG-, Fertodor (cyclofenil)-off cycle, stilbesterol derivates. If you get gyno from deca you're an idiot and shouldn't be 'abusing' anyway.

-Again, this arguement makes no sense. I state that a Low dosage was used and you counter with "Abuse". A few posts back you stated that effects of these drugs vary from person to person. The same holds true for antiestrogens and antiprogesterones. I've never had to take anything more than nolvadex if I started to get itchy nips or felt small lumps developing. Other guys only respond to armidex. HCG does nothing for me. Sometimes theres some trial and error involved with these drugs. Surely there are plenty of idiots using but that cant be decided based on your comments.


'Deca Dick' please, and this has what to do with what argument?. It's called Viagra.

-LOL I didnt coin the term buddy, and Yes, viagara does work in this case but you are arguing then agreeing that such as side effect is possible. Why would they need Viagra if ED wasn't a possible side? My point is that everyone who knows jack about AAS says "Deca, Deca, Deca is the safest drug; if I ever did a cycle it'd be Deca" As I said earlier, EQ and andriol are much safer options that provide gains equal to or better than Deca.

Deca doesn't not alter your test levels enough to affect sexual drive to cause impotence; it's something else. You have no data other than yea, my gym buddy says so and I've seen lots of guys say's Deca makes them ED. I've seen guys do alot of dumb stuff because of this street MD shit. It's a vascular event for the most part.


This one I do have personal experience on. At the time I was bridging between two cycles and was only on 400 mg deca. This was the only time ( and the last time) i ran deca w/o testosterone. My data is not from "my gym buddy". I dont wish to get into it on a clothing forum but my experience with AAS use and education is rather extensive. May I ask where you get your information from???

4. I would agree, 99% -pure estimate buy I know alot of physicians0alot- of physicians hanven't a clue, but think they do. I doubt most even know what the difference between deca and anadrol is. The only cases they see are trainwrecks where some idiot took anadrol 50 for like 6 months etc or something equally stupid and along with the media it reinforces their bad steroid mentality.

-Oxymethalone, i believe, is used in the medical community for extended periods of time. Don't quote me though. I'll check and get back to you with some research that you can sink your teeth into.

-I'm really not trying to be a dick. In the beginning of this thread our posts were in agreement. I feel as though I'm reasonably educated on this matter and you are countering my experience with outdated literature and no firsthand knowledge.

I think we should agree to disagree and let sleeping dogs lie.

If you ever decide to do a cycle of Deca, make sure you have plenty of Anti-e's, p's and viagara on hand as well as some clomid to get yur nuts back in order. You'll thank Mrrogers later.

MrR
post #42 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRogers
1. What you see going on around you. Well whomever you see isn't real bright. Deca is cited due to the potential benefits also not just the risks. If you are going to do this you want results also.

-These guys arent bright because they started to develop gyno from low doses of Deca??? Yes I agree, Deca is cited as probably the safest AAS. What you see on paper doesn't always transfer to real life.


*** If you are getting gyno at low dosages of Deca and you are using Nolvadex, you should discontinue if the gyno socially unacceptable or becoming abnormally progressive.


2. Again, under a 'docs' supervision I stated socially would never be.

-Least we agree on that.

3. Any user who has even the slightly bit of knowledge uses clomid, nolvadex, HCG-, Fertodor (cyclofenil)-off cycle, stilbesterol derivates. If you get gyno from deca you're an idiot and shouldn't be 'abusing' anyway.

-Again, this arguement makes no sense. I state that a Low dosage was used and you counter with "Abuse". A few posts back you stated that effects of these drugs vary from person to person. The same holds true for antiestrogens and antiprogesterones. I've never had to take anything more than nolvadex if I started to get itchy nips or felt small lumps developing. Other guys only respond to armidex. HCG does nothing for me. Sometimes theres some trial and error involved with these drugs. Surely there are plenty of idiots using but that cant be decided based on your comments.

***This argurment makes total sense based on what you stated. You stated abnormal gyno as a regular occurence but never made any mention of the use of Nolvadex.

*** I did state side effects vary but you would be an idiot to not take nolvadex if you are getting gyno.

*** HCG is to maintain your testicular function or to kick it back in although with deca used properly I don't see much of a case for its use. It works. Your last sentence makes no sense. a

'Deca Dick' please, and this has what to do with what argument?. It's called Viagra.

-LOL I didnt coin the term buddy, and Yes, viagara does work in this case but you are arguing then agreeing that such as side effect is possible. Why would they need Viagra if ED wasn't a possible side? My point is that everyone who knows jack about AAS says "Deca, Deca, Deca is the safest drug; if I ever did a cycle it'd be Deca" As I said earlier, EQ and andriol are much safer options that provide gains equal to or better than Deca.

*** I am well aware you haven't came up with the term, buddy.LOL
The side effect is always possible but easily treatable. Trying to saying EQ is safer than deca? Base on what? Your experience or a head to head study. Had you been using prior, do you have predispositions, what was your health at this time, were you comparing both drugs soley while using none other, were you using poly pharmacy.......personal experience is very poor man's science (in fact it's not science, it's very inaccurate at best especially to give advice on)

Deca doesn't not alter your test levels enough to affect sexual drive to cause impotence; it's something else. You have no data other than yea, my gym buddy says so and I've seen lots of guys say's Deca makes them ED. I've seen guys do alot of dumb stuff because of this street MD shit. It's a vascular event for the most part.


This one I do have personal experience on. At the time I was bridging between two cycles and was only on 400 mg deca. This was the only time ( and the last time) i ran deca w/o testosterone. My data is not from "my gym buddy". I dont wish to get into it on a clothing forum but my experience with AAS use and education is rather extensive. May I ask where you get your information from???

*** Your street experience again is not even remote valid science and you were you using polypharmcy. It's very inaccurate and unscientific. You have no data to be evaluated. Even studies can be debated, but your personal experience is not something to be advising other with. Please stop doing this, this is where hersay and bs start to become bad advice.

4. I would agree, 99% -pure estimate buy I know alot of physicians0alot- of physicians hanven't a clue, but think they do. I doubt most even know what the difference between deca and anadrol is. The only cases they see are trainwrecks where some idiot took anadrol 50 for like 6 months etc or something equally stupid and along with the media it reinforces their bad steroid mentality.

-Oxymethalone, i believe, is used in the medical community for extended periods of time. Don't quote me though. I'll check and get back to you with some research that you can sink your teeth into.

---And your point?


-I'm really not trying to be a dick. In the beginning of this thread our posts were in agreement. I feel as though I'm reasonably educated on this matter and you are countering my experience with outdated literature and no firsthand knowledge.

*** I feel as if you are arguing very mute points and just because you cycled various cycles and your personal experience doesn't give you any basis to be advising people. Use studies and full disclosure of your poly pharmacy before saying things like deca casues this because I used while also using this, after this length etc. Outdated literature? Dude you have NO LITERATURE, you are basing arguments on ABUSE. I'm talking about only using one drug, by a physicians (which you can legally) to optimize your performance, and even health potentially while reducing risks. ***YOU are talking about abuse, performance enhancement at a body builder level. BIG/Huge difference.

I think we should agree to disagree and let sleeping dogs lie.

If you ever decide to do a cycle of Deca, make sure you have plenty of Anti-e's, p's and viagara on hand as well as some clomid to get yur nuts back in order. You'll thank Mrrogers later.
Peace my friend.

MrR

Read above. I would only do, when I get older, HRT, to normal to high levels of normal, if I feel the risks outweigh the cons under a doctor's supervision and lab tests. I thinks it time we quit
post #43 of 48
I'm always up for a good debate but we dont seem to be getting anywhere. You state that my personal experience and knowledge -- both educational as well as what I have experienced in the BB community isn't substantial because it is not controlled research.

Where in any of your posts do you reference any studies?

My guess is that noone as of yet has taken the time to compare eq to deca in a clinical study. In light of no formal conclusions which of us can offer more sound advice? Me with first hand experience and formal education, or you who is citing incorrect nonsense from steriods101.com.

How about this..... In the future, I'll field inquiries about AAS and you can fill everybody in on the best creatine and protein shakes on the market.

MrR
post #44 of 48
As to whether or not steroids are as harmful as the Media says, I agree that the threat is probably overstated, and I have less to go on than most of you. Still, it seems foolish to ruin a perfectly functioning endocrine system just for a psychological boost from lifting more/looking more freak. In my experience, one can get plenty strong by training right and eating well. As was commented before, I'd rather be giving my money to Kiton than Merck. I do take creatine, but in my mind, creatine is a food, whereas a steroid is a hormone. I consider self-prescribing hormones just as bad as self-prescribing neurotransmitters.
post #45 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soph
1. What you see going on around you. Well whomever you see isn't real bright. Deca is cited due to the potential benefits also not just the risks. If you are going to do this you want results also. 2. Again, under a 'docs' supervision I stated socially would never be. 3. Any user who has even the slightly bit of knowledge uses clomid, nolvadex, HCG-, Fertodor (cyclofenil)-off cycle, stilbesterol derivates. If you get gyno from deca you're an idiot and shouldn't be 'abusing' anyway. 'Deca Dick' please, and this has what to do with what argument?. It's called Viagra. Deca doesn't not alter your test levels enough to affect sexual drive to cause impotence; it's something else. You have no data other than yea, my gym buddy says so and I've seen lots of guys say's Deca makes them ED. I've seen guys do alot of dumb stuff because of this street MD shit. It's a vascular event for the most part. 4. I would agree, 99% -pure estimate but I know alot of physicians0alot- of physicians hanven't a clue, but think they do. I doubt most even know what the difference between deca and anadrol is. The only cases they see are trainwrecks where some idiot took anadrol 50 for like 6 months etc or something equally stupid and along with the media it reinforces their bad steroid mentality. These is no steroid class in med school. Only endo's have a clue and sport medicine.
On the one hand you say any user w/ a slight bit of knowledge will take the right steroids, and on the other hand, a lot of physicians haven't a clue. Doesn't asking a physician constitute safe practice? If so wouldn't be taking wrong doses/drugs be very common then. I'm totally ignorant on steroids. Just butting in :-D
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