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Steroids! - Page 2

post #16 of 48
there is such a wide variety of "steroids" with different effects and side-effects that making a blanket statement like "steroids are bad for you" or "steroids cause cancer" is pretty stupid.

also, many times when people point to bodybuilders who've had health problems, it's not the steroids, but the other stuff they take which is a lot worse.

there are people who've taken anabolic steroids for decades with no health problems. again, this takes a little bit of homework on the user's part.

personally, i think it's getting too hard to detect and DEFINE what a performance enhancing drug is, so my opinion is that they should legalize everything. this is actually the stance that they have in japan for professional mma fights.
post #17 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soph
Ah, no one has died from taking steroids. Show me one clinical study that supports the dangerous health risks, you will not find even 1. It's purely speculation even on the most extreme cases. Please look at a journal, hell watch this from the New England Journal of Medicine.......acne...etc. No offense, but you have no idea what you are talking about. I take you don't get flu shots because of a needle? You represent the hysteria, poor education that give opinions that are clearly wrong.




http://youtube.com/watch?v=73EC609GY...elated&search=

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5398174.stm
post #18 of 48
I am not against steroids in fact quite the opposite,but I think there can be no doubt that orals(anadrol,turinabol,dianabol,winstrol etc...)are going to give your liver a good kicking and ultimately lead to very serious damage.
post #19 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soph
Ah, no one has died from taking steroids. Show me one clinical study that supports the dangerous health risks, you will not find even 1. It's purely speculation even on the most extreme cases. Please look at a journal, hell watch this from the New England Journal of Medicine.......acne...etc. No offense, but you have no idea what you are talking about. I take you don't get flu shots because of a needle? You represent the hysteria, poor education that give opinions that are clearly wrong.
Fair enough, I suppose. No one has died of a steroid overdose. Point taken. (EDIT - I re-read my original post and wished that I had been more specific when I said "used foolishly", since deaths such as those suffered by Andeas Muenzer can be more readily attributed to a mixture of effects than one simple substance. - close EDIT) To also be fair, I continue to reserve judgement on the goods that big pharm pushes upon us. Just because there are no ill effects today does not mean that everything is safe. You may call it hysteria and poor education if you like.
post #20 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by benecios

That's not a clinical study showing in vivio with normal to high levels, it's more extreme science to further hysteria. From what I can gather ""A study published in the Journal of Biological Chemistry by Yale School of Medicine found high levels of the hormone killed off nerve cells."

Okay, what were these 'high levels'. Tell you what, go castrate yourself that way you will never kill any brain cells from testosterone. Again, I am not promoting abuse such as this study seems to imply. Go get drunk alot and you'll kill alot of brian cells and lower your testosterone. Which steriods, what were the dosages relative to humans?, if I shoved enough bananas in a mouse it would have alot of problems. Seems like a very bias and extreme study to further the media's witchhunt. Abuse studies in a lab mean very little to the sane argument.

They should be more concerned with outlawing boxing and UFC if they are so concerned with the health of america. But no, that's perfectly okay isn't it?
post #21 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas
Fair enough, I suppose. No one has died of a steroid overdose. Point taken. (EDIT - I re-read my original post and wished that I had been more specific when I said "used foolishly", since deaths such as those suffered by Andeas Muenzer can be more readily attributed to a mixture of effects than one simple substance. - close EDIT)

To also be fair, I continue to reserve judgement on the goods that big pharm pushes upon us. Just because there are no ill effects today does not mean that everything is safe. You may call it hysteria and poor education if you like.

--- Now these are wise and level headed comments. Diurectics are much more dangerous than steroids, something you could die from. I'm just saying its hypocritical to ban one unhealthy behavior (even use seems maybe to potential make you healthier) over another.

Legal and Unhealthy activiites:

Smoking---neeed on go on about the huge amount of lung cancer and deaths cited on this one.
Drinking in Excess---ideally alcohol should be illegal that way there would be no drunk driving deaths, none, you don't need alcohol to live.....but society and $$$ thrive on it.
Football
Auto racing
motorcycles ---- think of all the deaths that would be prevented if this was illegal
Boxing
UFC

Sport are NOT healthy they are competitive, they have nothing to do with health.

-- Yet people will say this is bad make it illegal why they puff on a proven death stick.....why? because you should have the right to take risks if you deem them worthy and you don't hurt others.......

I personally like some risky behaviors as do most people, it's called freedom to choose.
post #22 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by benecios
I am not against steroids in fact quite the opposite,but I think there can be no doubt that orals(anadrol,turinabol,dianabol,winstrol etc...)are going to give your liver a good kicking and ultimately lead to very serious damage.

--- Perhaps, but again, we are talking about sane usage. I agree anadrol is bad news long term. It is the only steroid that has demonstrated potential liver cancer. But its the extreme case with Deca being so non androgenic/highly anabolic, they have given to women for osteo.
post #23 of 48
good points, soph. unfortunately, like many things, what you're saying is way above the heads of regular americans.
post #24 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soph
--- Diurectics are much more dangerous than steroids, something you could die from. I'm just saying its hypocritical to ban one unhealthy behavior (even use seems maybe to potential make you healthier) over another.

Soph,

Have you read Freakonomics? The authors make the statistical point that swimming pools kill more children than gun accidents in the house (current horrific headlines aside), but public perception is skewed the other way. The authors (iirc) put forth a rigorous treatment of the statistics to make a compelling conclusion, better than I could summarize here. Excellent book and a quick read. Seems relevant to your point.
post #25 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizanation
good points, soph. unfortunately, like many things, what you're saying is way above the heads of regular americans.

--- I'd have to agree, as Gumbal says Americans love their mass mentality, non critical questioning hysteria over logical thought. Under Dr. supervision, regular lab test I would postulate that after 35-40 years old, educated usage improves your health.
post #26 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soph
--- Now these are wise and level headed comments. Diurectics are much more dangerous than steroids, something you could die from. I'm just saying its hypocritical to ban one unhealthy behavior (even use seems maybe to potential make you healthier) over another.

Legal and Unhealthy activiites:

Smoking---neeed on go on about the huge amount of lung cancer and deaths cited on this one.
Drinking in Excess---ideally alcohol should be illegal that way there would be no drunk driving deaths, none, you don't need alcohol to live.....but society and $$$ thrive on it.
Football
Auto racing
motorcycles ---- think of all the deaths that would be prevented if this was illegal
Boxing
UFC

Sport are NOT healthy they are competitive, they have nothing to do with health.

-- Yet people will say this is bad make it illegal why they puff on a proven death stick.....why? because you should have the right to take risks if you deem them worthy and you don't hurt others.......

I personally like some risky behaviors as do most people, it's called freedom to choose.

Are you then advocating abolishing alcohol but legalizing 'roids?

I think that almost all drugs should be legalized but I am personally very uncomfortable with the idea of steroids - which is funny, because as I a diabetic I will literally die without gen-eng insulin.
post #27 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Augusto86
Are you then advocating abolishing alcohol but legalizing 'roids?

I think that almost all drugs should be legalized but I am personally very uncomfortable with the idea of steroids - which is funny, because as I a diabetic I will literally die without gen-eng insulin.


---Of course I am not advocating abolishing alcohol but legalizing roids; that's ridiculous. I can assure alcohol has directly been involved the deaths of thousands, whereas roids(again which ones? what dosage? how long? previous health?etc. etc.etc.) is lucky to find one case with a direct correlation.
post #28 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soph
But its the extreme case with Deca being so non androgenic/highly anabolic, they have given to women for osteo.

My mother received deca at 25-50mg for her osteo, most bodybuilders use between 400 and 1000mg

Steriods should certainly not be legalized. Once something is "legal" most individuals deem it "safe." What you will end up with is every 130 lb 16 year old stickin needles in their ass so they dont get beat up at the bus stop.

As i said before steriods can be used safely, but its easier said than done. I'm an educated guy with 2 masters degrees and finishing up a doctorate degree but even I did not always use in as safe a manner as I should have. I started using steriods too early at age 19. In roughly 5.5 years I went from 155 lbs to 260 lbs at 12% bf. While steriods obviously helped me along the way I trained and ate like an animal and dedicated my entire life to my fitness goals (eg. didnt drink a drop of alcohol in college). As you use continuously, you need higher dosages to grow- even if you are taking equal amounts of time off cycle as you do on. I think my first cycle was 8 weeks of deca at 200mg a week. The last cycle I did was 2000mg test, 50mg dianabol, 600mg deca, 6iu GH a day, insulin, aldactone for the bloat, propecia for my receding hairline and prolly 3-4 more things I cant remember. After using for so many years the receptors just don't respond like they used to and increasing dosages in inevitable. There is also the mindset that youve done x amount before with no problems so x more cant hurt. I've probably met 100 guys who've cycled and not one of them did only one.

Today i'm off for good and still like to train but its hard pushing 85lb dbells when u used to throw up 150's for twice as many reps. At 26 I have pretty bad back pain (despite always maintaining immaculate form), my hands sweat like crazy for some reason, and I still have lumps of scar tissue at my inj sites. I had blood sugar issues for some time after using the insulin which have now resolved. In retrospect, id prolly do it all again but I do cringe when I consider how much money I spent on gear that could have been invested in bespoke suits and lattanzi shoes.

Anyway,

MrR
post #29 of 48
Thread Starter 
My mother received deca at 25-50mg for her osteo, most bodybuilders use between 400 and 1000mg

---valid point, however deca has conisently be shown to be one of the Safest and most potent anabolic. I think it should and it is LEGAL currently to put you in the moderate to high category. Again for the appropriate patient.

Steriods should certainly not be legalized. Once something is "legal" most individuals deem it "safe." What you will end up with is every 130 lb 16 year old stickin needles in their ass so they dont get beat up at the bus stop.

---As always under doctor superivision, and of course not for a 16 year old. by the way, 16 year's get ahold of alcohol too and cigarettes and othe drugs legal or not. You are using a pretty weak, exaggerated argument with the above.

As i said before steriods can be used safely, but its easier said than done. I'm an educated guy with 2 masters degrees and finishing up a doctorate degree but even I did not always use in as safe a manner as I should have. I started using steriods too early at age 19. In roughly 5.5 years I went from 155 lbs to 260 lbs at 12% bf. While steriods obviously helped me along the way I trained and ate like an animal and dedicated my entire life to my fitness goals (eg. didnt drink a drop of alcohol in college). As you use continuously, you need higher dosages to grow- even if you are taking equal amounts of time off cycle as you do on. I think my first cycle was 8 weeks of deca at 200mg a week. The last cycle I did was 2000mg test, 50mg dianabol, 600mg deca, 6iu GH a day, insulin, aldactone for the bloat, propecia for my receding hairline and prolly 3-4 more things I cant remember. After using for so many years the receptors just don't respond like they used to and increasing dosages in inevitable. There is also the mindset that youve done x amount before with no problems so x more cant hurt. I've probably met 100 guys who've cycled and not one of them did only one.

--- You were pretty hardcore, I don't think the theme of this thread is professional bodybuilding which the last cycle above would indicate a pretty hardcore bodybuilder.

Today i'm off for good and still like to train but its hard pushing 85lb dbells when u used to throw up 150's for twice as many reps. At 26 I have pretty bad back pain (despite always maintaining immaculate form), my hands sweat like crazy for some reason, and I still have lumps of scar tissue at my inj sites. I had blood sugar issues for some time after using the insulin which have now resolved. In retrospect, id prolly do it all again but I do cringe when I consider how much money I spent on gear that could have been invested in bespoke suits and lattanzi shoes.


----true....insulin.....man you were crazy daredevil, glad you're still with us.
post #30 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soph
Steriods should certainly not be legalized. Once something is "legal" most individuals deem it "safe." What you will end up with is every 130 lb 16 year old stickin needles in their ass so they dont get beat up at the bus stop.

---As always under doctor superivision, and of course not for a 16 year old. by the way, 16 year's get ahold of alcohol too and cigarettes and othe drugs legal or not. You are using a pretty weak, exaggerated argument with the above.


Go to www.1fast400.com and search posts for methandione, AKA "Superdrol"
SD is an extremely toxic and strong steriod that as of a couple months ago was legally available online for 19.99. When I would frequent the board regularly, there were always kids around 15-16yo asking for proper dosages and how SD should be taken. Chances are that despite everyone telling them to not use SD they did anyway because they needed to "bulk up for tryouts" or were 130 lbs soaking wet.
Even after years of cycling experience, a 3 week cycle of this stuff at the recommended dosage was terrible. Without a doubt the harshest and most toxic drug I've ever taken. Many many others have had the same experience. Lowerback pain, extreme lethargy, appetite suppression, decreased libido, hair loss etc. My nephews tell me that kids in his HS are eating this stuff up like crazy since there's still some in circulation. The damage they must be doing to their developing bodies is incredible.

MrR
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