Cashmere Sweater Hierarchy - Page 2

Kind of random, but another vote for Jil Sander. Way more expensive than the others but feels great and obviously sleek cuts.

FYI Erdos are not a "he", the name comes from the city where they're based, Ordos.

AFAIK there is NO Mr. Erdos the designer. Not like Mr. Lauren or Mr. Armani or Mr. Lagerfeld. The company's name comes from the city in Inner Mongolia, PRC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordos

Their main business is actually production and wholesale export of high quality Inner Mongolian cashmere yarn, to places like Scotland, Italy, etc. They're just about a monopoly as well for Inner Mongolian cashmere yarn and sweaters.

OK what am I missing here? What's he got to do with Erdos Cashmere Products Co. Ltd? He doesn't look particularly Mongolian or Chinese.

As I posted earlier they're primarily a wholesale supplier/exporter of cashmere yarn and sweaters. Although Erdos does sell cashmere garments under their own brand here, where I am. I think they have their own in-house designers for that.

BTW I've got an Erdos sweater, and very nice it is to IMO.

Actually sometimes Google doesn't work too well in this part of the world.

I thought the Erdos ladies-wear was looking rather better these daya. Don't suppose he designed my sweater though.

Gotta include Ballantyne near the top, if not the top, of this hierarchy.

Not suprising...their cashmere comes from Erdos.

Mr. Erdos the designer does Ballantyne too? Well golly! Prolific geezer.

Are there any cashmere goats in Scotland? Enough for mass production of high quality sweaters, like Ballentyne, Hawick, etc.

There is a population of kashmir goats in Wales:

http://www.hawickcashmere.com/heritage.html
Cashmere comes from the fine undercoat of the Hyrcus goat. These extraordinary animals are native to the mountainous regions of Asia and are now primarily found on the frigid plateaus of Mongolia and northern China.

...aparently Mr. Erdos is quite prolific.

How much wear are you guys getting out of your cashmere sweaters? I'm finding mine holding up for only two seasons max, then they start looking shoddy.

Unfortunately, you're about a decade late to the party. Ballantyne has taken quite a plunge since their acquisition in 2004 by di Montezemolo's PE group, Charme. It has become a "high-fashion life-style" brand with mediocre-quality offerings generally made in Italy and the Balkans. Four years after Charme took over Ballantyne, the original plant in Innerleithen, Caerlee Mill, was spun off from the label due to poor performance and managed as a separate partnership with Brooks Brothers and Zegna Baruffa (Zegna's yarn spinner) as principal investors. In 2010, JJ and HB 1788, as the new partnership was known, was placed into receivership and nearly everything was liquidated save the intarsia section, which was formed into a new company with Charme's backing called Caerlee Mills. Caerlee seems to continue to supply Ballantyne on a contractual basis; you can still see a few of the signature made-in-Scotland, hand-framed diamond intarsias in their most recent collections and apparently if you go to the concept shop in Notting Hill you even can order a self-designed, made-to-measure garment from Caerlee Mill. The rest is quite disappointing.

I don't know who supplies yarn for the mainstay of Ballantyne's current production, but Todd & Duncan of Kinross was, and continues to be, the favored spinner for prestige Scottish cashmere knitters, such as John Laing, William Lockie, and Caerlee. T&D were acquired in 2009 by their principal supplier of dehaired cashmere fibers, the Ningxia Zhongyin Cashmere Co of Zhongyin, but production and management have remained at Kinross. Before the early 1990s Mongolian raw cashmere clippings, with dirt and guard hairs intact, were exported directly to Scottish processors such as T&D and Johnstons to be dehaired, scoured, and so on. Then the PRC began to exercise trade controls in order to increase the value of their exports and build a competitive domestic industry, so European spinners began to import semi-processed fibers. As the technology gap has narrowed between Chinese and European processors and spinners, many (mezzanine) European knitters today even use wholly Chinese-made yarn, albeit not without peril. In 2001 the US Consumer Protection Agency censured Clan Douglas for its cashmere sweaters made of Chinese yarn that turned out to contain 5% wool. A few European firms, in fact, have set up their own plants in Inner Mongolia to ensure tighter quality control (I think Loro Piana), but they are certainly in the minority.

These are my Ballantynes, all between 35 and 45 years old:



Even the oldest still look pristine, showing no pilling or stretching; I wash them once every few months, in a front-load machine on delicate cycle in cold water with a special shampoo, air-dried flat (no cultic/sacrificial rituals, just a bit of prudence). In my humble opinion, the quality of the old Ballantyne, Pringle, and Lyle & Scott was and remains unsurpassed. The Lockie and McGeorge I've had the opportunity to see are probably nearly there as well. I've also heard great things about Murray Allan and Laing. Pity that it's basically all been swept away.

BTW, the current Creative Director of Ballantyne is Yossi Cohen.

I can picture PTWilliams riding that, a steady hand on each horn.

I have cashmere sweaters from Murray Allan, Johnston's, Balmore, Ballantyne, Land's End, and Snow Lotus.  Mixture of new and vintage.  Murray Allan, Johnston's, Balmore, and Ballantyne are all excellent.  I have seen John Laing and it is of similar quality.  Snow Lotus, which is a Chinese maker, is surprisingly good -- almost as good as the Scottish makers.  Land's End was decent ~10 years ago, though not as good as the others, and their quality has further gone downhill considerably since they were bought by Sears.

 

The story msameth told regarding availability of top-quality cashmere yarn makes perfect sense.  The production of top-quality cashmere garments in Scotland was a matter of historical development of fiber production and fabric mills.  Increasing quality of production in China and their desire to produce more finished products for export should mean that they will produce more premium products in the future. I can attest that at least some of it is very good now.