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Is Law School a Losing Game? Article - Page 8

post #106 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by djblisk View Post
The "Sky is falling" aspect of the article and this thread is ridiculous. Being an attorney from California, where competition is fierce, most if not all of my Classmates and other attorney friends are successful and have jobs. The only one not succesful and still working as "document review" is still getting $35 an hour and has been employed since we all graduated, albeit his has skipped from one project to another.

The point: yes its fucking difficult but it is not as critical as that article portrays.

couldn't agree with you more. med school is quite the same... finishing med school is really just the start... definitely not the end
post #107 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnoldh View Post
You really should work up a resume featuring the Princeton JD. And weren't you the editor of the Princeton Law Review, as well as in the top 3 of your class? No promises, but I think I have some leads for community organizer jobs for you down here in Texas. Lightning can strike twice! Connemara Hussein Kennedy. You would be a sure winner.
With a name like that, I am bound to be president. You could run my campaign Arnold. In the meantime, could you ask Sheila Jackson Lee if her office has any openings?
post #108 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valor View Post
You have a 3.9 at a state school, unless your state school is UC Berkeley or Cornell, I'm pretty sure you didn't bust your ass.

? Pretty loose interpretation of state school.
post #109 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by iclub21 View Post
couldn't agree with you more. med school is quite the same... finishing med school is really just the start... definitely not the end

yeah but finishing med school, at any ranked medschool, still makes you a doctor. correct me if im wrong but getting in is the hard part. sure you might not get the residency program you want or might not live in the area you want but the pay is very good and in the long run beats the average lawyer.

now you take a lawyer that finishes law school, at a lower tier school, and yes hes a laywer but he will end up doing any manner of work, not necessarily law related. and not to bash this type of person but was it worth the trouble, loans, time, etc? unless you come out of good school and make to big law with the nice salary you will end up being an ambulance chaser. yet law schools, any rank, are portrayed as a great thing for anyone unsure of career path and its supposed to yield higher pay scales but it is very misleading
post #110 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomkoreandude View Post
yeah but finishing med school, at any ranked medschool, still makes you a doctor. correct me if im wrong but getting in is the hard part. sure you might not get the residency program you want or might not live in the area you want but the pay is very good and in the long run beats the average lawyer.

now you take a lawyer that finishes law school, at a lower tier school, and yes hes a laywer but he will end up doing any manner of work, not necessarily law related. and not to bash this type of person but was it worth the trouble, loans, time, etc? unless you come out of good school and make to big law with the nice salary you will end up being an ambulance chaser. yet law schools, any rank, are portrayed as a great thing for anyone unsure of career path and its supposed to yield higher pay scales but it is very misleading

This kind of generalized thinking is why we are having this argument..

do you know how much some ambulance chasers make? Good School to Biglaw isn't the only way to become a great attorney or make money in law.

do you know how much doctors make? I know a lot of general practitioners who started out at pretty low wages for a so-called "doctor".

All schools tote that education equates to money, look at MBA schools, even undergrad schools.
post #111 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by djblisk View Post
do you know how much doctors make? I know a lot of general practitioners who started out at pretty low wages for a so-called "doctor".

Your data may be a little old, as the US stopped producing General Practitioners in the 70s. A new graduate of a Internal Medicine/Peds/Family Practice residency is still looking at 90k on the low end in the community.
post #112 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by djblisk View Post
This kind of generalized thinking is why we are having this argument..

do you know how much some ambulance chasers make? Good School to Biglaw isn't the only way to become a great attorney or make money in law.

do you know how much doctors make? I know a lot of general practitioners who started out at pretty low wages for a so-called "doctor".

All schools tote that education equates to money, look at MBA schools, even undergrad schools.

Like I said before, the richest guy I know didn't finish high school. Just because there are examples in the outliers doesn't mean it is even remotely intelligent to base your decision off of them.

Good school to BigLaw isn't the only way to make significant money as a lawyer. Obviously, that's true. You could get a JD, know someone at GS, and work as an investment banker or as a consultant at McKinsey. But the vast majority of people will not have those connections or shoehorn their way into a billboard ad telling people you can get them money off of a Vioxx class action.

The major point is that BigLaw is the most common avenue because it actually occurs with some regularity for law grads, unlike ambulance chasers making 200k+. So people chase after that with little-to-no regard for the actual reality of the hiring situation from the school they choose to attend.
post #113 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valor View Post
You have a 3.9 at a state school, unless your state school is UC Berkeley or Cornell, I'm pretty sure you didn't bust your ass.

Difficulty and quality of education is irrelevant to the discussion. The point was that as a liberal arts major in good standing what (if any) are the legitimate options besides law school?

And if there are none, then "rolling the dice on Law" is not that much of a gamble as the job statistics might make it appear.

A shot a big law looks a hell of a lot better then a shot at manning the counter of the local BP station.
post #114 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by caxt View Post
Difficulty and quality of education is irrelevant to the discussion. The point was that as a liberal arts major in good standing what (if any) are the legitimate options besides law school? And if there are none, then “rolling the dice on Law” is not that much of a gamble as the job statistics might make it appear. A shot a big law looks a hell of a lot better then a shot at manning the counter of the local BP station.
This is something I agree with, as long as the unemployable liberal arts major fully recognizes that they may have to take on significant loans that their future job may not help them pay. The upside is a better career for someone who majored in something they probably shouldn't have (from a financial perspective), but the downside could be crippling debt and a no-better job situation. Even with a full-ride to a lower school, you're paying for housing in loans - but I'd rather take a full-ride at Temple and take a shot at the top of my class and Philly BigLaw than $200k+ in loans at a top 30 school and still end up with the potential to be making 50-60k and be destitute. The only way this isn't true is if your school has LRAP and they'll basically pay back the majority of your loans if you make under a certain salary threshold.
post #115 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by BC2012 View Post
This is something I agree with, as long as the unemployable liberal arts major fully recognizes that they may have to take on significant loans that their future job may not help them pay. The upside is a better career for someone who majored in something they probably shouldn't have (from a financial perspective), but the downside could be crippling debt and a no-better job situation. Even with a full-ride to a lower school, you're paying for housing in loans - but I'd rather take a full-ride at Temple and take a shot at the top of my class and Philly BigLaw than $200k+ in loans at a top 30 school and still end up with the potential to be making 50-60k and be destitute. The only way this isn't true is if your school has LRAP and they'll basically pay back the majority of your loans if you make under a certain salary threshold.

+1
post #116 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by caxt View Post
Difficulty and quality of education is irrelevant to the discussion. The point was that as a liberal arts major in good standing what (if any) are the legitimate options besides law school? And if there are none, then “rolling the dice on Law” is not that much of a gamble as the job statistics might make it appear. A shot a big law looks a hell of a lot better then a shot at manning the counter of the local BP station.
yeah but shot at big law nowadays only means T14. or at least around there. law has more of a pecking order than compared to other professions. so if you cant get into the "good" schools, then your "shot" is not even really there. thats the misconception with law schools in general. ^agreed if you get full ride and can do well to be at top of class at your law school and not be T14 then fine. but not many can be top of class at their respective schools
post #117 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by zbromer View Post
You seem to be ignoring the obvious. Let's do as you say and forget about the people who think law school is a path to a comfortable salary. You're left with the people who think the practice of law will be a fulfilling career. From your posts, you indicate that you are one of these people. The reality is that getting the job that you think will provide you with that fulfillment has become exceptionally difficult.

It's not just the people who think they'll make $150K out of law school that are finding great disappointment with job prospects in the legal field. It's also the people who think they'll be happy simply practicing law that are also finding great disappointment with job prospects in the legal field.

Law school applicants are unbelievably naive not only about their financial prospects, but also about what practicing law entails.

yeah, i can buy most of that. what you have is a really flawed -- borderline corrupt -- admissions process from these lawschools combined with a pool of prospective students who are basically huge suckers.
post #118 of 130
if you ask anyone at T14 schools they ALL expect big law with nice salaries (exception of those few who want public service, government, or have something lined up) ...

maybe back in the good old days everyone in t14 could get it if they wanted it, but now the problem is a large amount wont get it and they will have to settle for smaller markets with less pay. im a 2L and got very lucky/am very fortunate. but i can attest to having tons of friends who went through interviews and got zero callbacks or got one and didnt get an offer.

but if this is happening to kids at this level ... just trickle that down to the lower ranked schools and its impossible that people will get lucrative careers they are expecting, with the exception of those that graduate top of their class at their respective schools
post #119 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomkoreandude View Post
yeah but shot at big law nowadays only means T14. or at least around there. law has more of a pecking order than compared to other professions. so if you cant get into the "good" schools, then your "shot" is not even really there. thats the misconception with law schools in general.

This is true and I agree, I should have clarified that I was referring to T14 schools.
post #120 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post
^which is why you spend the 60 seconds or so it takes to register and be able to read anything the best newspaper in the US has ever published.

I didn't see anything from the Wall Street Journal
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