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Restaurants with Dress Codes: Take Back The Night! - Page 7

post #91 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post
You guys honestly care how other people dress?

Would we be on SF if we didn't?
post #92 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bounder View Post
Admittedly, a lot of people have this attitude. They are entitled to it but I think it's a shame as they are missing out. Some of us, at least occasionally, go to restaurants with much higher expectations. We are seeking an experience, not satiation. I am going to repost one of the most compelling defenses of dress codes that I have ever read.

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The people who object to dress codes are missing the point. Why should everything be reduced to the lowest common denominator? There is plenty of space for people who want to dress casually when they dine. I do it myself. But there should also be a space for people who want to dine with a certain elan. There is a certain pleasure in attending black tie events if you enjoy that sort of thing. There is a sense of camaraderie "” an unspoken understanding that, for tonight, we are a community with certain shared values. It would be inappropriate to attend wearing shorts, not only because it would be rude to the host but because it creates a jarring note in what should be a harmonious evening. By wearing shorts you are declaring that there is no community, no shared values. Perhaps this camaraderie is just an illusion, but it's a pleasant one and you're ruining it for everyone else.

The same idea, albeit somewhat weakened, applies in restaurants with dress codes. By ignoring the dress code, you're attacking the values of those who do follow it. "I spit on your bourgeois manners and outmoded sensibilities! I do what I want!"

This may not be the message those who ignore dress codes intend to send but it's the message those who follow them get. I don't think this is something that people who ignore dress codes really understand but it explains a lot of the vehemence on the part of those who sometimes like to dress for dinner.

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I will add a couple of reasons of my own. First, when you are choosing a restaurant, do you consider the decor? Are you really indifferent to eating in a 16th century French chateau v. a McDonald's? For many of us, the ambiance can be an important part of the experience and your fellow diners are, for better or worse, a part of it. If you can ignore the guy sitting at the next table wearing a baseball cap with an outline of a naked lady on it and a "Kiss My Ass!" T-shirt while concentrating on the artwork on the walls, good for you. But some of us lack these powers of concentration.

Second, I assume that everyone here has an interest in tailored clothing. Is it so wrong to want an excuse to wear it once in a while? You would -- or at least I would -- feel pretty stupid dressing up in a DJ and then going to eat at McDonalds. I'd feel almost equally ridiculous in an allegedly nice restaurant where the better dressed people are wearing trainers. But that is what everything is becoming, the lowest common denominator. It's a sartorial version of Gresham's law: Bad clothing drives out good. We should promote every opportunity to encourage people to at least put on a jacket.

I would hope that even the people here who have no interest in dress codes can appreciate why some people do. Every place doesn't have to be a sports bar. There are plenty of places to be casual. Is it so bad to encourage the few remaining places that try to promote a sense of occasion?

BTW, someone suggested to me that I create a list in the OP of these restaurants. I think that's a great idea. I have to run to the airport now but I will get that done ASAP.

+2

I live in Eastern Canada, which is a very casual slice of the world.

Unfortunate, because the 'romance' (for lack of a better term) seems to be all but gone from formal dining situations.
post #93 of 202
Here's an idea--Why don't some of the SF members meet to discuss the general lowering of standards in all areas of life in US/world, the extent (if any) to which one can gauge a person's station in life and/or socioeconomic class by dress, and the degree to which a restaurant's having a dress code is a guarantee that its serves "fine food" at a meal? Oh, wait . . . who would pick the restaurant? (Maybe at someone's home . . . .)
post #94 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post
You guys honestly care how other people dress?
Foo, you and your fellow young, brash, iconoclast whippersnappers (and don't tell me for a minute you don't care how others dress!!!) could learn something from this gent:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bounder View Post
Admittedly, a lot of people have this attitude. They are entitled to it but I think it's a shame as they are missing out. Some of us, at least occasionally, go to restaurants with much higher expectations. We are seeking an experience, not satiation. I am going to repost one of the most compelling defenses of dress codes that I have ever read. - - The people who object to dress codes are missing the point. Why should everything be reduced to the lowest common denominator? There is plenty of space for people who want to dress casually when they dine. I do it myself. But there should also be a space for people who want to dine with a certain elan. There is a certain pleasure in attending black tie events if you enjoy that sort of thing. There is a sense of camaraderie — an unspoken understanding that, for tonight, we are a community with certain shared values. It would be inappropriate to attend wearing shorts, not only because it would be rude to the host but because it creates a jarring note in what should be a harmonious evening. By wearing shorts you are declaring that there is no community, no shared values. Perhaps this camaraderie is just an illusion, but it’s a pleasant one and you’re ruining it for everyone else. The same idea, albeit somewhat weakened, applies in restaurants with dress codes. By ignoring the dress code, you’re attacking the values of those who do follow it. “I spit on your bourgeois manners and outmoded sensibilities! I do what I want!” This may not be the message those who ignore dress codes intend to send but it’s the message those who follow them get. I don’t think this is something that people who ignore dress codes really understand but it explains a lot of the vehemence on the part of those who sometimes like to dress for dinner. - - I will add a couple of reasons of my own. First, when you are choosing a restaurant, do you consider the decor? Are you really indifferent to eating in a 16th century French chateau v. a McDonald's? For many of us, the ambiance can be an important part of the experience and your fellow diners are, for better or worse, a part of it. If you can ignore the guy sitting at the next table wearing a baseball cap with an outline of a naked lady on it and a "Kiss My Ass!" T-shirt while concentrating on the artwork on the walls, good for you. But some of us lack these powers of concentration. Second, I assume that everyone here has an interest in tailored clothing. Is it so wrong to want an excuse to wear it once in a while? You would -- or at least I would -- feel pretty stupid dressing up in a DJ and then going to eat at McDonalds. I'd feel almost equally ridiculous in an allegedly nice restaurant where the better dressed people are wearing trainers. But that is what everything is becoming, the lowest common denominator. It's a sartorial version of Gresham's law: Bad clothing drives out good. We should promote every opportunity to encourage people to at least put on a jacket. I would hope that even the people here who have no interest in dress codes can appreciate why some people do. Every place doesn't have to be a sports bar. There are plenty of places to be casual. Is it so bad to encourage the few remaining places that try to promote a sense of occasion? BTW, someone suggested to me that I create a list in the OP of these restaurants. I think that's a great idea. I have to run to the airport now but I will get that done ASAP.
Very well put. Bravo.
post #95 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by forsbergacct2000 View Post
I have no problem with people who don't want to dress up. A lot of people in my church don't wear suits or sport coats. I just don't understand why it's a big deal to you that a restaurant might want to cater to a certain audience. I've played keyboards and sang in a lot of bands. I have no problem with them not wanting me to scream a hard rock song in a country bar. If I have a problem with that, I should not take the country gig. If I don't have a gig a certain night and want to play, I go with the flow. Your "Pot meet kettle" nonsense is meaningless.
Congratulations. Your analytical and reading comprehension skills are now at the same level as my shoe laces. Soon, they may even work up to the shoes themselves. Your analogy skills, however, need some work. Try including a kitten, a hot chick, and a car in there somewhere. I hear those are popular topics. If you'd read the thread, you would have realized that while I may enjoy dressing up for a meal, I do not see the point of insisting that the whole world follow a dress code to dine somewhere. I find the idea oddly unappealing (repulsive, even) to my sensibilities because of several reasons, not the least of which are because I value the freedom of choice and I inherently distrust meaningless elitism and snobbery. But mostly, it's because I really don't give a damn about how other people dress. Having to "enforce" something basic such as a dress code defeats the very purpose that it purports to uphold.
post #96 of 202
I still belong to a few of clubs that require coat and tie in the public areas. The one that is a country club allows a more casual attire at lunch ... but at dinner it's coat and tie only. I'm fine with these rules.

Hell ... I even dress for dinner at home.
post #97 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlin View Post
For the same reason you don't like to be dressed up in a chicken costume, or apparently don't like others to dress the way they wish to.
Oh please ... are we now equating wearing a coat and tie with wearing a chicken costume? Have Cruiser and his AAAC gang hijacked Style Forum?
post #98 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSS View Post
Oh please ... are we now equating wearing a coat and tie with wearing a chicken costume? Have Cruiser and his AAAC gang hijacked Style Forum?
If one were to insist that I dress up to eat a meal, I may as well dress up as a chicken. I'd still be miserable, but if not anything else, it'll at least be of entertainment value. Hyperbole is an excellent way of getting one's point across. Besides, what's normal to one man is costume to another. I have no problems against dressing up (personally) or others being dressed up. I just have a problem when some folks equate such a dress code with "class" and insist on snobbery and elitism in its name. The hypocrisy of the whole thing is mildly disturbing at best. Besides, Cruiser was a troll. The thoughts expressed here are my genuine opinion -- you may disagree with it, but there it is.
post #99 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlin View Post
I have no problems against dressing up (personally) or others being dressed up. I just have a problem when some folks equate such a dress code with "class" and insist on snobbery and elitism in its name. The hypocrisy of the whole thing is mildly disturbing at best.
I certainly wouldn't equate it with class ... anyone can learn to dress well ... certainly a select few in residence here at SF have done so.
post #100 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlin View Post
The thoughts expressed here are my genuine opinion -- you may disagree with it, but there it is.
I can respect that. I'm glad you put it this way.
post #101 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSS View Post
I certainly wouldn't equate it with class ... anyone can learn to dress well ... certainly a select few in residence here at SF have done so.
Here's my simple take on it. Let's assume that you feel comfortable in a certain ambiance, and part of the charm is from the social makeup of the crowd, which is reflected in many ways -- one of which is dress code. If an establishment were to truly send that message, then they would not need a rule that enforces a particular dress code. Such a restaurant would be self-selecting on the basis of several factors -- from the kind of wine they serve to the way their waiting staff are attired. Social pressure, pure and simple, will work its magic. On the other hand, when you draft a rule that explicitly dictates a particular dress code, then you are moving away from that self selection. On some level, you are sending the message that your target demographic is incapable of gauging the nature of the place they are dining in. At which point, the restaurant inherently because less attractive because you've imposed a superficial aspect (e.g. dress code) when you're really seeking to establish a fundamental baseline for the kind of crowd you want to attract. As such, enforcing a dress code is quite meaningless, and in my experience, most places that enforce a dress code (as opposed to their customers willingly dressing well in the absence of any) tend to have unremarkable food. Restaurants that are more honest about what they serve and reserved in their judgments of their customers (be they in denim or dinner jacket) instead tend to concentrate on the the most crucial element -- the food. As such, the customers are more willing to overlook the superficial (i.e. who cares how others dress, as long as I can truly relish my meal). And ironically, their customers also tend to be better dressed -- on their own accord.
post #102 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlin View Post
most places that enforce a dress code (as opposed to their customers willingly dressing well in the absence of any) tend to have unremarkable food.
Your use of the word most makes this difficult to address. But in my experience, this is not true. I frequent few restaurants that have dress codes ... but those that do are outstanding.
post #103 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.K View Post
I live in Charlotte and do not know of one place that has a dress code. I have been in high end places and had people in jeans and t-shirts a couple tables away. It is just part of why most countries see the US as a bunch of over indulgent slobs.

+100. Atlanta is the same way. They look at you strange if you're not dressed like a frat boy.
post #104 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSS View Post
Your use of the word most makes this difficult to address. But in my experience, this is not true. I frequent few restaurants that have dress codes ... but those that do are outstanding.
Ahh, but are they more outstanding than the latter category? And clearly, we have different opinions on what constitutes outstanding.
post #105 of 202
ime, with very few exceptions, metlin is correct. You go to a restaurant with great food, and you get well dressed clientele. The clientele are usually not all in suits and ties, in fact, suits and ties are probably in the minority, but the crowd is often quite fashionable and attractive.
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