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TOJ - updates on the debacle, complaints, news about other ventures, whatever. - Page 3652

post #54766 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rommel View Post
 

I've been trying to get a hold of Drew, trying to make some changes to my QDR sizing. Has anyone been in contact recently?


A++ trolling, the TOJ Ken Bone

post #54767 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

The other thing I'd like to ask: if anyone has correspondence or proof to show that Drew never intended to make jackets, but instead ran the last few months of orders as a way to fund his new restaurant business, please let me know. This could be something we can use to move forward with a criminal case.

 

Thanks for the update.  The "never intended to make jackets" has too many outs.  You should argue this from a different angle and you already have all the facts/evidence for it.  I'll send you a PM.  


Edited by SloppyJoes - 10/20/16 at 11:54am
post #54768 of 54803

is drew still taking orders? id like to order a large wallet pls

 

also, a dozen chicken wings

post #54769 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambyance View Post
 

is drew still taking orders? id like to order a large wallet pls

 

also, a dozen chicken wings

Yes he is don't worry. I recently got tracking for my lamb MDR, ordered March 2008.

post #54770 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melbush View Post
 

Yes he is don't worry. I recently got tracking for my lamb MDR, ordered March 2008.


I got tracking from him on his last batch. Opened the package and wrong jacket. Posted a picture of it and the dude who's jacket it was recognized his name on the box in the background. Fortunately that guy had received my jacket so we both promptly mailed our jackets to each other.

 

DK couldn't even get the mail right. Stupid AF.

 

Hey Drew, you still owe me 2 jackets. Oh and like 1,000,000 others too. BYE

post #54771 of 54803
Damn, looks like I stopped posting on the forum just before this shitshow took off.

Sucks so many people are out money and jackets. I've seen this kind of thing on guitar forums as well. New luthiers pop up, get internet-popular overnight, take way more orders than they can handle, fall behind, and then just crash and burn. Or they can't manage a business and burn through all their capital too quick, and have to take new orders in order to finance finishing their first orders, thus digging themselves in a hole, and ending up with a bunch of incomplete/not built guitars and no money to finish them.

Unfortunately it almost always ends the same way - the builder disappears off the face of the earth, and the people who ordered from them are left to speculate without either money or guitars.
post #54772 of 54803
So nothing has happened since 2013? Drew has just walked away with most peoples money?
post #54773 of 54803

correct. walked away have a half million. cocksucker.

post #54774 of 54803
And he's still making jackets for people!
post #54775 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by max_r View Post

Damn, looks like I stopped posting on the forum just before this shitshow took off.

Sucks so many people are out money and jackets. I've seen this kind of thing on guitar forums as well. New luthiers pop up, get internet-popular overnight, take way more orders than they can handle, fall behind, and then just crash and burn. Or they can't manage a business and burn through all their capital too quick, and have to take new orders in order to finance finishing their first orders, thus digging themselves in a hole, and ending up with a bunch of incomplete/not built guitars and no money to finish them.

Unfortunately it almost always ends the same way - the builder disappears off the face of the earth, and the people who ordered from them are left to speculate without either money or guitars.

A common story all over the place, unfortunately.  "Dig their hole deeper" is probably an apt way to describe it.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by outlawcowboy View Post
 

correct. walked away have a half million. cocksucker.

It's probably more accurate to say "blew through half a million.  It's not really that hard to do.  Being able to properly manage your money is a skill that is taught and learned from a young age, and you go from struggling to relatively flush nearly overnight, it's difficult to understand, emotionally, that the money is very finite.  You see this all over the place, not just in uneducated lottery winners.  A young startup with a handful of people go from living and working from a studio on top of a Chinese takeout to having $5MM in startup money, and there is a great temptation to buy awesome computers with Aeron chairs and a huge office.  And don't forget the foosball table.  

post #54776 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post
 

A common story all over the place, unfortunately.  "Dig their hole deeper" is probably an apt way to describe it.

 

It's probably more accurate to say "blew through half a million.  It's not really that hard to do.  Being able to properly manage your money is a skill that is taught and learned from a young age, and you go from struggling to relatively flush nearly overnight, it's difficult to understand, emotionally, that the money is very finite.  You see this all over the place, not just in uneducated lottery winners.  A young startup with a handful of people go from living and working from a studio on top of a Chinese takeout to having $5MM in startup money, and there is a great temptation to buy awesome computers with Aeron chairs and a huge office.  And don't forget the foosball table.  

yeah. i get it. im sure in the end he was broke, so he didnt really walk away with the money. but he damn sure stole it and got away with it. it's just hard to wrap my head around..

post #54777 of 54803
Maybe if he didn't lie, deride his customers, and present himself as the ultimate business authority...
post #54778 of 54803

Just out of curiosity, would this not have happened if ToJ had taken orders but not charged customers until they were ready to fulfill a certain batch?

post #54779 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by noob in 89 View Post

Maybe if he didn't lie, deride his customers, and present himself as the ultimate business authority...

Well, I'm certainly not saying that he doesn't have character deficiencies, nor that those deficiences are fairly common in guys of this sort.  But that is only peripherally pertinent to the story.  I mean, people would have been equally pissed off if they'd dumped $800 into the nicest possible guy, who then disapppeared off the face of the earth.  Incidentally, this actually happened to me.  I had to fill out a dozen forms with my bank, but did get my money back.  It helped that Martin Greenfield, who was going to be the maker of the suit, is one of the most established suitmakers in the country, and that they went out of their way to help me with documentation.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichikasuto View Post
 

Just out of curiosity, would this not have happened if ToJ had taken orders but not charged customers until they were ready to fulfill a certain batch?

The logistics of this are prohibitive, and an order without at least a 50% deposit is nearly never taken.  When I do preorders, I prefer to do to 100% of the order, and will occasionally do 50%.  However, for 50% deposits, you often end up with loss (and headache, and just general financial disadvantage).  For example, even now, there is a Schneider preorder that has not been completely paid for, with zero communication from the buyer.  You are just stuck with unmovable inventory.   It needs to be stored.  It costs money to have been brought in.  And if it is in an unusual size or color, it could be hard to sell.

 

Since we did not have an "abandoned preorder" policy written, I can't sell the item, either.  

 

In the end, there is some degree of trust in these transactions.

post #54780 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post
 

The logistics of this are prohibitive, and an order without at least a 50% deposit is nearly never taken.  When I do preorders, I prefer to do to 100% of the order, and will occasionally do 50%.  However, for 50% deposits, you often end up with loss (and headache, and just general financial disadvantage).  For example, even now, there is a Schneider preorder that has not been completely paid for, with zero communication from the buyer.  You are just stuck with unmovable inventory.   It needs to be stored.  It costs money to have been brought in.  And if it is in an unusual size or color, it could be hard to sell.

 

Since we did not have an "abandoned preorder" policy written, I can't sell the item, either.  

 

In the end, there is some degree of trust in these transactions.

So, is it also not feasible to have a system so that when you have the materials/time available to make a requested item, the buyer would be notified that you can make it and that they need to pay in full in order to continue? I figure something along those lines would be manageable since you're not necessarily taking a big hit if they don't buy since you just have materials that you can save later for another potential customer, or is there still some lack of assurance on both ends of the transaction?

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