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TOJ - updates on the debacle, complaints, news about other ventures, whatever. - Page 3616

post #54226 of 54803
That hurt a small part of me
post #54227 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by c00kz View Post

That hurt a small part of me


No need to tell the world about your member bro. :uhoh:

post #54228 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeraQueezy View Post

grailed guise.  relax.

I actually hate the collar on it so I took an exacto to it.




Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

lol, dope guy. we'd probably get along great.
post #54229 of 54803
Does anyone have a link or something to a webpage that describes how to send something directly to a person's main Facebook inbox? Unfortunately not on Facebook myself, so I can't fiddle around. The person I'm having send the message can't find anything concrete.

Regarding chargeback reference numbers: I messaged two people. One still hasn't gotten back to me; the other initially said he felt uncomfortable giving out that kind of personal information, and then later said he's been re-billed. So, unfortunately nothing to give there.

The message has been emailed to Drew's girlfriend, although I have some Facebook contacts I'd like to reach out to.
post #54230 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post

Does anyone have a link or something to a webpage that describes how to send something directly to a person's main Facebook inbox? Unfortunately not on Facebook myself, so I can't fiddle around. The person I'm having send the message can't find anything concrete.

Regarding chargeback reference numbers: I messaged two people. One still hasn't gotten back to me; the other initially said he felt uncomfortable giving out that kind of personal information, and then later said he's been re-billed. So, unfortunately nothing to give there.

The message has been emailed to Drew's girlfriend, although I have some Facebook contacts I'd like to reach out to.

Seems like all messages sent to a connection go to Inbox, sometimes there's a fee prompt, sometimes not. Most go to Other, but sometimes messages are ALSO just filtered as Spam -- whole thing is a bit confusing, I found a ton of people asking and not much helpful material. This link https://www.facebook.com/help/community/question/?id=143043092711712 made it seem like it was either random, or possibly you needed mutual connections to get the prompt?

I did read however, that once it's sent, you can tell if it reached the person because the message will tell you it was "seen" by the other party if they opened it. Not sure if any of this helps :/
post #54231 of 54803

Make sure the first couple of lines are nice so if she sees it, it arouses her curiosity so that she opens it and reads what a shit bf she has! This isn't about our jackets anymore, it's about saving a poor soul from a psychopath. 

post #54232 of 54803

I've posted multiple comments and messages to both her and closerwhateverguy on instagram. Comments get deleted instantly and messages don't get responded to. Curiously, neither has blocked me. 

 

Is that James(?) cat still writing an article? I will go on record with real name, etc, for whatever it's worth. Does he know that Drew is buddy buddy with the Huff Post Korea editor? 

post #54233 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim_n View Post

Am I just talking to the wrong people at visa? I've called half a dozen times, talked to 6 different people including managers and still get the same response.. SOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerful Telephone Scripts -- I Will Teach You To Be Rich 

BAD THINGS TO SAY HERE:

• “Are you sure?” Don’t make it easy for the rep to say no.

• “Is there anything else I can do?” Again, imagine if you were a customer service rep and someone said this. It would make your life easier to just say “no.” As a customer, don’t make it easy for companies to say no.

• “Okay.” Don’t give up here. Despite what you learned in sex ed, “No” does not mean “No” when it comes from a bank.


TRY THIS SCRIPT INSTEAD:

You: “Well, I see the fee here and I’d really like to get it waived. What else can you do to help me?” Repeat your complaint and ask them how to constructively fix it.

At this point, about 85 percent of people will get their fees refunded. I have hundreds of comments from people on my blog who have taken this advice and saved thousands of dollars in fees. But in case the rep is obstinate, here’s what you can do:

Bank Rep: “I’m sorry sir, we can’t refund that fee.”

You: “I understand it’s difficult, but take a look at my history. I’ve been a customer for more than three years and I’d like to keep the relationship going. Now, I’d like to get this waived—it was a mistake and it won’t happen again. What can you do to help?”

Bank Rep: “Hmm, one second, sir. I see that you’re a really good customer…I’m going to check with my supervisor. Can you hold for a second?”

Bank Rep: “Sir, I was able to check with my supervisor and waive the fee. Is there anything else I can help you with today?”

As you can see, it’s not hard to get overdraft fees [or maybe ToJ charges?] reversed at banks. You just have to stay firm and make it hard for them to say "no."


http://lifehacker.com/money-saving-phone-calls-how-to-negotiate-out-of-bank-1435848512#_ga=1.144676469.1132973242.1412273304

Applicable. Feels a bit cheesy, but it's worked for me in the past.
post #54234 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by basil rathbone View Post

I've posted multiple comments and messages to both her and closerwhateverguy on instagram. Comments get deleted instantly and messages don't get responded to. Curiously, neither has blocked me. 

Is that James(?) cat still writing an article? I will go on record with real name, etc, for whatever it's worth. Does he know that Drew is buddy buddy with the Huff Post Korea editor? 

It would be great if you can go on record. Let me double check with him to see if I can give out his personal email address. If so, I'll PM you.
post #54235 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post


Regarding chargeback reference numbers: I messaged two people. One still hasn't gotten back to me; the other initially said he felt uncomfortable giving out that kind of personal information, and then later said he's been re-billed. So, unfortunately nothing to give there.

Yeah, I was the second person here. Ignore my prior message of a successful dispute with Capital One. Seems I got some bad info from a rep I spoke with on the phone. The one thing I've learned from my discussions with them is that Capital One and/or Visa has a hard line of 540 days after the charge where they will not refund, even if you've been strung along with delayed delivery dates. If you filed your dispute within 540 days of the charge, and can substantiate broken promises of later delivery, then I think it may be worth pursuing still.
post #54236 of 54803
http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/default.aspx

Anybody in the US file a complaint here yet?
post #54237 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post


It would be great if you can go on record. Let me double check with him to see if I can give out his personal email address. If so, I'll PM you.

 

Just wondering - how much are you in the hole on this? Did you order multiple jackets? You seem very motivated and driven for justice on this and I applaud your efforts. 

post #54238 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by basil rathbone View Post

Is that James(?) cat still writing an article? I will go on record with real name, etc, for whatever it's worth. Does he know that Drew is buddy buddy with the Huff Post Korea editor? 

Just PM'd you James' email address.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macdonwald View Post

The one thing I've learned from my discussions with them is that Capital One and/or Visa has a hard line of 540 days after the charge where they will not refund, even if you've been strung along with delayed delivery dates. If you filed your dispute within 540 days of the charge, and can substantiate broken promises of later delivery, then I think it may be worth pursuing still.

That's good to know. Worth highlighting for anyone who happens to still be in that window.

Kind of still annoyed that we were arguing about whether Drew was actually delivering jackets a year into the delays, but nothing we can do about that now ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by seabrass View Post

Just wondering - how much are you in the hole on this? Did you order multiple jackets? You seem very motivated and driven for justice on this and I applaud your efforts. 

I received my jacket on the last round of deliveries, when Drew made that spreadsheet, but I'm still pursuing this. Really bothers me that he took this much money from people.
post #54239 of 54803

Any news from the people who were talking about pursuing civil litigation with that Korean American lawyer...?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feji View Post

http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/default.aspx

Anybody in the US file a complaint here yet?


I'm going to work on a draft this weekend. Here, I've quoted this post since it has a lot of good info and history:

 

 

"Ok guys, I went the link for the Korean police and filled up the form. It was very quick, and I encourage as many of you to do it as possible. I typed up a brief summary of my situation, then copy and pasted the text from below.

Maybe nothing will come of it, but it literally took me 5 minutes to do. Let's just try to do something.

http://www.police.go.kr/eng/main/contents.do?menuNo=500031 Warning: Spoiler! (Click to hide)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireGX View Post

How about we start with this (based off the reddit thread here): https://www.reddit.com/r/malefashionadvice/comments/38c0n0/toj_update_drew_keith_disappears/

TOJ is an online company... primarily run through public forums/paypal/gmail accounts. They are known for customer leather jackets at a very competitive price.  However, the owner has failed to deliver jackets after receiving payment, with some users waiting over 2 years without receiving their jacket.
In June 2013, Drew Keith (Owner of TOJ) announces the closure of TOJ so he can start a restaurant and is doing a "last call" before he stops making jackets completely. Orders continue to flood in... for quite a bit of time afterwards. The wait time was estimated at less than 6 months. Jackets get made and sent... but production eventually start to slow down.

March 2014, an announcement from one of Drew's employees (now former employee) goes out saying wait time will be increased (up to 9 months+). Reason cited as being "Korean holidays/manufacturer work on their own schedule".
April 2014, he also starts a "kickstarter" type of funding to raise money for his restaurant. It was to produce backpacks and leather wallets and he estimated it would be 2 months wait. Many placed additional orders.
June 2014, last orders were placed and they stop taking orders. A few are reaching 1 year wait times but are given new excuses (Employee's dad died and had to leave the country for a few weeks). Everyone was sympathetic and was okay waiting longer. Some start to complained about wallets/backpacks and why they are late.
September 2014, not many jackets have trickled out during summer. People start complaining again but no one really has a clue how far along their orders were.
October 2014, someone creates a public spreadsheet and many customers populate spreadsheet with order info (date placed, order item, date it was sent.. etc.). It was revealed that there are many outstanding orders and it was obvious nothing much had been done as June 2013 orders were still incomplete. Many request refunds. Drew says he has to look into order details before he can send refunds.
December 2014, refunds still not sent. Drew gives a new update requesting everyone resend their order info. Also he promises majority of orders will finish around Jan/Feb 2015. Wallets/backpacks finally start shipping out... but only a few at a time.
January 2015, a few additional orders trickle out, but nothing major. People question whether or not they will actually receive their orders by Feb 2015.
February 2015, not much progress. Drew's broken yet another promise. Doesn't respond to emails
April 2015, Two remaining TOJ members quit (haven't been paid for over a year/kept in the dark/being fed lies from Drew). People start to complain and one posts a negative review on Libertine's facebook page (Drew's restaurant). Co-owners tell Drew to clean up the mess and he comes into the forums (after disappear for 3 months) and explains situation. Says refunds can't be sent because paypal account was frozen from a chargeback (members double check with paypal and confirmed he was lying about it being frozen). Has dozens of jackets that were already made, but were just sitting around in storage for months. He starts sending jackets out. Claims that he's already sent out thousands (had over 1 million dollars USD in orders). and only 20% remains. Users question these numbers.
May 2015 - Drew's disappeared for 3+ weeks again. Doesn't respond to emails, no way for customers to reach him regarding outstanding orders or refunds. Last week, more negative reviews were posted on Libertine's FB wall after it became apparent that Drew was still ignoring/avoiding customer questions. Drew shows back up on the forums almost immediately. He obviously wasn't thrilled. He essentially threatens anyone who complains that he would purposely delay their orders even further. He mentions he is currently in the process of selling the restaurant and that negative reviews are causing him monetary damage and he will not hesitate to handed personal information over to authorities. He then disappears again for another week, not responding to questions on the forums or private emails regarding existing orders/refunds
This causes an outrage.
June 2015
Former TOJ employee told everyone that he left because he wasn't being paid/finally realized something was up. He also mentions that he doubts everyone will get their orders (especially the later orders).
This causes immediate panic/action from everyone as there are still July orders outstanding.
What has happened since this news:
1 - Mass paypal disputes filed/chargeback filed. Unfortunately Paypal refused any action. 
2 - A large number of customers are looking into options for legal action against Drew. Evidence is being compiled that range from scam/possible tax evasion/import-export fraud/etc.
3 - Multiple negative reviews on Libertine's Facebook page causes response from one of the other owners. They claim that they have dismissed Drew from all restaurant related activities. They also mention they were unsuccessful in contacting him. They inform everyone that Drew has disconnected his phone and has recently moved as well.
4 - Korean editor is currently collecting information in the thread.
5 - Admins lock his account from posting/editing (guessing to prevent him from editing/deleting past posts or just fed up he's been using their forums to scam people)
6 - Drew still has not created a new account/contact forum admins to allow him to communicate with customers. He was instructed to do so but claimed he doesn't know how or have the contact info of the admins. Admin refutes that statement.
UPDATE 6/3/2015
7 - Drew responds via facebook since he can't post. Keep in mind these are jackets that were completed previously and just sitting in storage for months.
UPDATE 6/4/2015
8 - Libertine Seoul clarifies a few misunderstandings. Restaurant is not being sold. Drew's portion of it is being sold.
9 - Someone has successfully filed a chargeback by providing the timeline history above
UPDATE 6/5/2015

10 - Drew responds with a wall of text. Avoids a lot of questions and parts of the story doesn't add up to what past employees/business partners have said.
June 10 2015
11 - Still not a single response from Drew, even after promising last week that he would respond to questions. His account activity showed that he signed on once, then logged off. Deputy Editor from The Korea Observer has tried multiple channels to contact Drew Keith (all unsuccessful). They have confirmed he is no longer a part of the restaurant. They are trying to get hold of him to seek his side of the story. They are asking for help in spreading the message.
June 11 2015
12 - Drew posts (under a new account) requesting everyone to enter their information into a spreadsheet.  At first, a number of jackets get sent, but things slow to a trickle over the summer and by Sept 22 2015 he has not updated the spreadsheet since Aug 20 2015. 

"

 

+1 on the collection agency route, might be the quickest way since its a private entity driven by money versus a government entity likely with a backlog.

post #54240 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by macdonwald View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dieworkwear View Post


Regarding chargeback reference numbers: I messaged two people. One still hasn't gotten back to me; the other initially said he felt uncomfortable giving out that kind of personal information, and then later said he's been re-billed. So, unfortunately nothing to give there.

Yeah, I was the second person here. Ignore my prior message of a successful dispute with Capital One. Seems I got some bad info from a rep I spoke with on the phone. The one thing I've learned from my discussions with them is that Capital One and/or Visa has a hard line of 540 days after the charge where they will not refund, even if you've been strung along with delayed delivery dates. If you filed your dispute within 540 days of the charge, and can substantiate broken promises of later delivery, then I think it may be worth pursuing still.

if that's really true, then that means that i should've filed two months earlier than i actually did

it's been a month since i filed a dispute with wells fargo/visa and i haven't heard from them since (though they said that it could take up to 60 days to investigate; i'm gonna call them about the status of my dispute on friday)

really hope the 540 days thing isn't applicable in my case, and if it is, then i don't know why the rep i spoke to even went ahead with filing my dispute at all
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