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TOJ - updates on the debacle, complaints, news about other ventures, whatever. - Page 3606

post #54076 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onehitwonder View Post
 

 

I think you should file a chargeback if you still can. Sure it would hurt the other guy but if you don't do that then the chance of you getting your money back basically goes to zero. It doesn't have to be a dog eat dog world but Drew went out of his way to ensure that it is.

 

We'll thats not happening. I'm not pushing this over to some other guy. If there's no way of making a chargeback back to the TOJ account (Can't see how that would be possible) I'll take my loss and move on. 

 

This entire thing is just sad. I had 3 jackets from TOJ. One got stolen and the other two I really, really enjoy. Just really dissapointed that I didn't get my jacket I guess... 

post #54077 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by dePt View Post
 

 

We'll thats not happening. I'm not pushing this over to some other guy. If there's no way of making a chargeback back to the TOJ account (Can't see how that would be possible) I'll take my loss and move on. 

 

This entire thing is just sad. I had 3 jackets from TOJ. One got stolen and the other two I really, really enjoy. Just really dissapointed that I didn't get my jacket I guess... 

 

Why don't you ask the guy you paid to if he can help?  You should still have a record of the email address you sent paypal $ to.  Tell him that you want to try to pursue a chargeback against Drew/TOJ and you need to involve him so paypal/the CC company doesn't file the chargeback against the wrong person.  It's in his best interest to help provide the necessary information to make it clear that he was an innocent party who got dragged into this because of Drew's scam.

 

As shitty as it may be to have to drag an innocent person back in this situation, no matter how you look at it, it's necessary if you want to begin to do something against Drew. 

post #54078 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by SloppyJoes View Post

Why don't you ask the guy you paid to if he can help?  You should still have a record of the email address you sent paypal $ to.  Tell him that you want to try to pursue a chargeback against Drew/TOJ and you need to involve him so paypal/the CC company doesn't file the chargeback against the wrong person.  It's in his best interest to help provide the necessary information to make it clear that he was an innocent party who got dragged into this because of Drew's scam.

As shitty as it may be to have to drag an innocent person back in this situation, no matter how you look at it, it's necessary if you want to begin to do something against Drew. 
It's a dick move. It's not in his best interest to get involved in any way. He's out of it. The transaction was legit and that's that (unless seller is an insider who knew that non-fulfillment was imminent). dePt has the right idea.
Edited by tradernick - 10/12/15 at 12:42pm
post #54079 of 54803

What "Other guy"?? You're literally asking another human being to see what they can do for you. I swear this generation and their reliance on app-everything makes them fearful of other humans.

post #54080 of 54803
Nope, it would be a dick move to file a chargeback against the original purchaser. Especially if you purchased a spot, which was probably months/years in the waiting, and you knew.
post #54081 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by tradernick View Post

This is a lawyer way of thinking - drag everyone in sight into it and hope for some $$. It's a dick move. It's not in his best interest to get involved in any way. He's out of it. The transaction was legit and that's that (unless seller is an insider who knew that non-fulfillment was imminent). dePt has the right idea.

The transaction wasn't legit at all.

There are numerous posts here of people saying things like "I looked back at my paypal refund, and realized it just came from some guy, not TOJ".

Those guys got bought out of the ponzi scheme by later investors. I'm not saying that they are somehow complicit in or liable for Drew's fraud, but it is not entirely reasonable to reach out to them (especially if you are thinking about taking your claim to paypal). You don't want to be a dick and fuck that guy over, but you also don't want to let Drew walk free if there is a chance that you can get paypal to trace it back to him.

If you coordinate your paypal complaints, maybe you'd get some action that doesn't fuck over the guy who got the "refund". He goes to paypal and says "I thought I got refunded for this order, but it turns out that some other guy just sent me money, thinking he was ordering a jacket". You go to paypal and say "I thought I was paying for a jacket, but it turns out I was just being tricked into participating in a ponzi scheme perpetuated by tojorders@gmail.com".

Who knows what they do. Maybe they roll back the transaction onto the guy who got the refund...but then use the "refund" transaction as reason to extend the claims period and roll back the transaction on Drew.
post #54082 of 54803
Wow.... Aand people have turned on each other now.

So you're going to lie and pretend you thought you were buying it from TOJ direct, when it was clear you weren't?
post #54083 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by otc View Post

The transaction wasn't legit at all.
Just to clarify, I was saying the transaction in the secondary market was legit - spot seller to spot buyer. You feel that it wasn't? If so, why not?

The original transaction between Drew and the buyer was potentially fraudulent if Drew knew he was losing control/and or didn't particularly care whether he ever actually delivered a jacket or not. Unfortunately, it's probably very difficult to prove criminal intent there, because Drew can just say 'I honestly thought I could fulfill these orders'. Please note - I'm talking strictly about what you can prove or not. His intentions are a separate matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by otc View Post

You go to paypal and say "I thought I was paying for a jacket, but it turns out I was just being tricked into participating in a ponzi scheme perpetuated by tojorders@gmail.com"
Really? Tricked by whom?
post #54084 of 54803

To be fair TOJ never told me that the paypal account belonged to someone else. All I got was "We have a spot open. Transfer the funds to this account". Nothing else was stated. Since this was my 4th jacket I knew that  the account wasn't theirs.

post #54085 of 54803
This is absurd, people selling spots wanted out and people buying spots wanted in. Both parties had a clear understanding of TOJ's situation, there is no legitimacy in screwing over people who sold their spots.
post #54086 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by tradernick View Post

Just to clarify, I was saying the transaction in the secondary market was legit - spot seller to spot buyer. You feel that it wasn't? If so, why not?

The original transaction between Drew and the buyer was potentially fraudulent if Drew knew he was losing control/and or didn't particularly care whether he ever actually delivered a jacket or not. Unfortunately, it's probably very difficult to prove criminal intent there, because Drew can just say 'I honestly thought I could fulfill these orders'. Please note - I'm talking strictly about what you can prove or not. His intentions are a separate matter.
Really? Tricked by whom?

I'm not talking about someone who knowingly sold their spot. I am talking about people like dePt who were told by toj to send the money to an account not actually belonging to toj.

If you have previously bought a jacket, you might think it is weird that the money is not being sent to drew's usual paypal account. But if it was your first one, you might not realize that "whitesneakers@gmail.com" has no actual association to TOJ.

The people they gave the money to were people who had asked TOJ for a refund. They weren't people trying to sell off their spots.
post #54087 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipractice View Post

This is absurd, people selling spots wanted out and people buying spots wanted in. Both parties had a clear understanding of TOJ's situation, there is no legitimacy in screwing over people who sold their spots.

 

There were quite a few cases where someone wanted a refund, but rather than the refund coming directly from TOJ, it was sent from someone else. They basically did a spot transfer instead of a refund to the original customer, then a new order.  

 

And nowhere am I suggesting he screw over the person who sold his spot.  I am saying, if you want to pursue a chargeback against TOJ and you have a transferred spot, you need to coordinate it with the person who sold his spot.  

 

If you don't even have the balls to email the person to ask if he is willing to spend 10 minutes to help you on your case, you don't deserve your money back.

post #54088 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by tradernick View Post

It's not in his best interest to get involved in any way. He's out of it. 

 

I agree it's not in his best interest but unfortunately, TOJ is the one that got him into this scam.  If they had just given him a full refund instead of doing a spot transfer behind his back, he would be completely out of it.

post #54089 of 54803

Yeah, whitesneakers@gmail.com fuck that guy

post #54090 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by venividivicibj View Post
 

Yeah, whitesneakers@gmail.com fuck that guy

 

Yeah... fuck reading comprehension.

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