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TOJ - updates on the debacle, complaints, news about other ventures, whatever. - Page 32

post #466 of 54803
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hataraki_man View Post
Hmm. Yes, I understand quite well that slim anything is going to restrict mobility.

Actually, the notion I was going for was that high armholes are good and provide mobility. Meaning that the bottom of the sleeve opening in the body of the jacket is relativley high and allows the sleeve to move upward to a relatively higher degree before the arm starts to pull the body of the jacket upwards with the arm. To illustrate the effect of low armholes imagine you were wearing a perfectly cut bespoke suit and then proceeded to staple the bottom of the arm to the side of the suit body 1 or 2 inches below the armpit, then tried to move your arms.

Apparently many manufacturers cut jackets with low-hanging armholes in order to accomodate the largest prospective customer of a RTW line. Their logic being, "the small man won't notice that the armhole is so low until he raises his arms, but the large man would immediately notice uncomfortable tightness in the armpit if it were too high and not buy the jacket." I was inquiring as to where you or the public thinks TOJ products generally line up in the spectrum of armhole height.

Thanks.

edit: observe this poor chap, lol. Kind of looks like my peacoat, but more extreme.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...armholes-1.jpg

To that, I think (and this is broad, because I've produced so many things in so many sizes, that everybody's experience is gonna be different) TOJ stuff generally has high armholes. The point is fairly moot since we MTM a good chunk of the line, and you may specify your requirements. The original TOJ0 jacket that was the genesis of this thing, that was admittedly very tight fitting and had very small arm scyes, I know because I spent all summer sweating in my kitchen, cutting the patterns for each on my kitchen table.
Pattern cutting-wise, you can move the arm scye in towards the body on the horizontal plane, and that will take away from the chest/lower shoulder area (and across the shoulder blades on the back) or you can make very low armholes with a very shallow curve. Both ways would achieve a given arm scye circumference, as you can see, but there is a balance of numbers that needs to be achieved on the front and back panels as well.
Italian camiccia tend to have these tubular sleeves with higher armholes, American shirts have these lower armholes and have wider sleeves, it's kind of like that.

The newer stuff, the outers, I have indeed widened the armholes to the point that I've not had anyone come back and say they were too high, in contrast with a few really skinny guys who said they were too wide, so it appears to me I've moved towards the middle of the road there. TOJ is still generally on the slim-sleeve high-armhole side of the spectrum though, definitely. You can't get the kind of fit we produce otherwise.
post #467 of 54803
Thread Starter 
Adding to that (chipping away the eternal block of conversations here) - the TOJ shirts, we have a single block for. I like it that way. I'm gonna make some new styles, but I will keep the block the same, because man, it's a really nice pattern and fits a whole variety of people nicely. That pattern, as you can see from pics, has a moderate arm scye, and not too high, not too low armholes. It's middle of the road for a slim fit shirt in terms of slimness, but I find it very successful. People who are too big for some brands of shirting can put on a TOJ and it works, and even the skinniest of skinny (myself) can wear it and it's a slim fit.
post #468 of 54803
I was just about to mention your shirts in terms of fit. I picked up a ToJ overdyed medium shirt from another SF member and it has been the best fitting thing i have ever warn, fitted yet still mobile enough for various fits or styles, the most versitile shirt i own. I'm gonna have to buy one straight from you guys if you get some chambray meterial in.
post #469 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by impolyt_one View Post
The newer stuff, the outers, I have indeed widened the armholes to the point that I've not had anyone come back and say they were too high, in contrast with a few really skinny guys who said they were too wide, so it appears to me I've moved towards the middle of the road there. TOJ is still generally on the slim-sleeve high-armhole side of the spectrum though, definitely. You can't get the kind of fit we produce otherwise.

^Good news to hear ~. Kind of what I expected, actually.

Shirts sound interesting too. I experimented with MTM for a while but wound up with a pair of shirts that fit pretty well, I think, but just don't look that good, and I can't quite put my finger on what it is. I'm a pretty tricky customer with a large drop from chest to waist so maybe I was just fooling with the numbers too much and should stick to shirts designed by someone who knows what they are doing (not me.) BTW, what materials do you use for shirt and buttons?

Thanks.
post #470 of 54803
^ You shouldn't worry too much about your large chest to waist drop. A large in our shirts fit me slim throughout the body even though I have a 11-12" drop. For info about available shirtig material, you can email templeofjawnz@gmail.com.
post #471 of 54803
Thread Starter 
The buttons on casual shirts are trocas, actually, I think 3-4mm, basically as thick as they can get. Our dress shirts )TBA) get mop
post #472 of 54803
^ NdG used buttons that are around 25% thicker.. but yeah, yours are thicker than all the other brands I've tried. Personally, I'd like to see an option for thinner buttons. But I'll be buying more shirts regardless because the cut is so good.
post #473 of 54803
Thread Starter 
25% thicker than my trocas shell buttons? Really? I can't even imagine buttoning the shirts up if they were any thicker than they are. The casual buttons are flat, the dress MOP's are dished... curious to see those NDG's, you got a pic? In any case, yes they are thick... I just like the added dimension they give the shirts. I want people to take that second or third glance and say, 'wow, those buttons on your shirt are beefy'
post #474 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by willy cheesesteak View Post
JASON BOURNE/BEAR JEW owns a peacoat, moto, dr, dr 2010, varsity, bmber, and a shirt.

i always thought one of these dudes was you. fantasy ruined
post #475 of 54803
Thread Starter 
they are separate entities, hiding in a fortress made of TOJ grey poly bags somewhere in NYC.
post #476 of 54803
post #477 of 54803
Just send payment for the fishtail...damn 3-5 weeks is a long time. Can hardly wait
post #478 of 54803
Got the DR today. Someone posted that a turtle neck under would work. I was wearing a turtle neck already so just put the DR over it..I thought it worked out pretty well. Never would've thought those two items would work well together.
post #479 of 54803
so it worked ?
post #480 of 54803
^ glad my suggestion of a turtleneck was good

i been debating whether or not to get a bomber for the past couple days. From the pictures i've seen, it looks soooo dope unzipped. But zipped up, the bomber seems to bulge in the pocket area, making the pocket placement look too far apart. probably the only thing holding me back right now.
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