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TOJ - updates on the debacle, complaints, news about other ventures, whatever. - Page 781

post #11701 of 54803
This whole argument is such a waste of time. I'll admit that I've only skimmed it, and I haven't necessarily understood the whole argument in full. Surely though, Drew can sell his jackets at whatever price that he wants to. If he feels that his costs/profit margin/quality-cost ratio/risk/whatever on producing a shearling jacket are not appropriate for his business, then so be it - he doesn't have to qualify his reasons with logic or reason - if he doesn't want to do it, then he doesn't have to.
post #11702 of 54803
Bump for an actual sincere non-shearling-related question!

Quote:
Originally Posted by countrygent View Post

Hi,

Sorry for asking a question that is probably answerable by search, but the signal to noise in this thread had dropped way down in the last dozen pages and I just don't have the energy to trawl through it all:

Is the Collared Moto available again? Same design as previously? Colors?

Thanks,
H
post #11703 of 54803
Thread Starter 
Yeah anyway, unrelated to Woodyear; I just had a funny thought while sitting here looking at stuff -

some of you dudes who read fashion blogs, street snap blogs, whateva, you have probably inadvertently seen of the Korean fashion dudes on these sites lately, I don't really follow it but I can feel that it's become something of a recent phenomenon in the past couple years. I know nicelynice and aeglus even buy some of their clothes and probably know the guys I am talking about.

Anyway, those guys are fucking styling! Haha. They seriously love clothes and styling. it's been 3 years since Daul Kim died, and me and winq went out to this flea market around this time 3 years ago and saw her hanging out; she was with a couple fashion type dudes. When Daul saw me and winq wearing all these rare clothes (which was our prerogative at the time) she just said 'wowwwwwwwwwwww' in this high pitched voice. haha. Anyway, in the years since, the two guys I have seen many times again, lately they are stylists for 2NE1 and are designing clothes I think. They buy leather and fabric at the same places we do, so we bump elbows often, haven't ever talked to them either. They don't know what TOJ is, and I don't know what exactly they're doing, but obviously we each have a good idea of what we do, otherwise we wouldn't be at the same place buying leather and fabric, etc.

It just dawned on me though, those guys, they really love the styling aspect of shit, and I doubt they really like the engineering aspect of making clothes. They're the kind of Korean guys who trawl Yahoo JP auctions to get some Rick and Ann D at discount, because that shit is expensive in Korea, like $4K a pop for some stuff. Me, I'm the opposite. I spend like 6 months of the year in a white Hanes tee and some beat up jeans, some white sneakers - don't really care about what I wear, because I'm going to work. If it gets cold, I throw on a jacket or a coat. Funny how that works out in the end. On the clothes side, I have gained an appreciation for all this inner-circle Milanese and Firenze MC stuff lately, I get the suits made bespoke in person in Korea the way I want them, and then I add the italian shirt and tie, pocket square, some English shoes, but that is traditional and kind of obvious. Streetwear though, I hate overworked styling and stuff lately - I really like this effortless look, it's honest.
I saw Brad Pitt in person last week and yeah the guy is a multi-millionaire heavyweight, and wears a bunch of gothninja shit from Atelier, but you know what? It's a jacket, a tee shirt, a pair of pants that he wears a bit slouched, and some boots. The same basic formula that we all wear in some form or another. The guy obviously has some physical advantages, but he definitely follows the same basic style formula that I've been on about for years. Jacket, tee, jeans, shoes, each piece to complement each other while being basic and good in their own right.

Mrs TOJ went to fashion school in Tokyo long ago, and to be honest, she doesn't really pay much attention to what I do beyond the obvious, and doesn't really have much to say about TOJ. Sometimes she comments on the varsity jackets and says they're cute, etc. We don't do avant garde shit, and so it doesn't really grab people's attention as a package that way I guess, and I try not to let something like that take over my home life; when I come home, I am just at home, just like anybody else. Plus, if you're a woman, you don't really have anything to do with TOJ as it is now, unless a man inducts you by getting you a women's leather jacket.
Anyway, Mrs TOJ is brutally honest with me all the time even if she's not paying attention to what I actually make; what she wants (and of course I face this by saying it's unrealistic) is to see me do some sort of clean slate, abstract original designing on this haute/mode level, which is not the style or niche that TOJ is in. She doesn't quite understand that part, or the proverbial garden that I've been tending. She does say though, that in all her time at fashion school, around all these people who became fashion designers in Japan, that I have a completely different mindset about clothes than those people and it's far more engineered and focused on quality. I guess that is what I would hope for and try to express anyway, but the confirmation is nice. In clothesmaking there are stylists, and there are clothesmakers - I guess I am naturally the latter and not much of the former. I think a lot of the other affiliates on styleforum work the same way.

Just the proverbial cud that I've been chewing on, behind the scenes.
post #11704 of 54803
@ countrygent

visit this site
http://templeofjawnz.com/
post #11705 of 54803
Tales of Jawnz lol I love these long post about clothes and other stuff
post #11706 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by impolyt_one View Post

Yeah anyway, unrelated to Woodyear; I just had a funny thought while sitting here looking at stuff -
some of you dudes who read fashion blogs, street snap blogs, whateva, you have probably inadvertently seen of the Korean fashion dudes on these sites lately, I don't really follow it but I can feel that it's become something of a recent phenomenon in the past couple years. I know nicelynice and aeglus even buy some of their clothes and probably know the guys I am talking about.
Anyway, those guys are fucking styling! Haha. They seriously love clothes and styling. it's been 3 years since Daul Kim died, and me and winq went out to this flea market around this time 3 years ago and saw her hanging out; she was with a couple fashion type dudes. When Daul saw me and winq wearing all these rare clothes (which was our prerogative at the time) she just said 'wowwwwwwwwwwww' in this high pitched voice. haha. Anyway, in the years since, the two guys I have seen many times again, lately they are stylists for 2NE1 and are designing clothes I think. They buy leather and fabric at the same places we do, so we bump elbows often, haven't ever talked to them either. They don't know what TOJ is, and I don't know what exactly they're doing, but obviously we each have a good idea of what we do, otherwise we wouldn't be at the same place buying leather and fabric, etc.
It just dawned on me though, those guys, they really love the styling aspect of shit, and I doubt they really like the engineering aspect of making clothes. They're the kind of Korean guys who trawl Yahoo JP auctions to get some Rick and Ann D at discount, because that shit is expensive in Korea, like $4K a pop for some stuff. Me, I'm the opposite. I spend like 6 months of the year in a white Hanes tee and some beat up jeans, some white sneakers - don't really care about what I wear, because I'm going to work. If it gets cold, I throw on a jacket or a coat. Funny how that works out in the end. On the clothes side, I have gained an appreciation for all this inner-circle Milanese and Firenze MC stuff lately, I get the suits made bespoke in person in Korea the way I want them, and then I add the italian shirt and tie, pocket square, some English shoes, but that is traditional and kind of obvious. Streetwear though, I hate overworked styling and stuff lately - I really like this effortless look, it's honest.
I saw Brad Pitt in person last week and yeah the guy is a multi-millionaire heavyweight, and wears a bunch of gothninja shit from Atelier, but you know what? It's a jacket, a tee shirt, a pair of pants that he wears a bit slouched, and some boots. The same basic formula that we all wear in some form or another. The guy obviously has some physical advantages, but he definitely follows the same basic style formula that I've been on about for years. Jacket, tee, jeans, shoes, each piece to complement each other while being basic and good in their own right.
Mrs TOJ went to fashion school in Tokyo long ago, and to be honest, she doesn't really pay much attention to what I do beyond the obvious, and doesn't really have much to say about TOJ. Sometimes she comments on the varsity jackets and says they're cute, etc. We don't do avant garde shit, and so it doesn't really grab people's attention as a package that way I guess, and I try not to let something like that take over my home life; when I come home, I am just at home, just like anybody else. Plus, if you're a woman, you don't really have anything to do with TOJ as it is now, unless a man inducts you by getting you a women's leather jacket.
Anyway, Mrs TOJ is brutally honest with me all the time even if she's not paying attention to what I actually make; what she wants (and of course I face this by saying it's unrealistic) is to see me do some sort of clean slate, abstract original designing on this haute/mode level, which is not the style or niche that TOJ is in. She doesn't quite understand that part, or the proverbial garden that I've been tending. She does say though, that in all her time at fashion school, around all these people who became fashion designers in Japan, that I have a completely different mindset about clothes than those people and it's far more engineered and focused on quality. I guess that is what I would hope for and try to express anyway, but the confirmation is nice. In clothesmaking there are stylists, and there are clothesmakers - I guess I am naturally the latter and not much of the former. I think a lot of the other affiliates on styleforum work the same way.
Just the proverbial cud that I've been chewing on, behind the scenes.

Take away message: 2NE1 rocks! I'm listening to their songs right now on the iPhone while studying. biggrin.gif:embar:
post #11707 of 54803
Drew, you just keep doin' your thang. I'll toast you when I'm eating my duck bacon. redface.gif

Also, I'm happy someone's finally talking about this "variation on a uniform" stuff. I usually dress the same way - sneakers, jeans, hanes, jacket, and really the only things I look for in clothes any more (aside from my occasional forays into haute mode) are variations on that theme ( I will say, however, that it's "fun," or maybe even fulfilling somehow, to, I don't know, have your throw-on winter uniform be something ludicrous like rick dunks, overdyed pants, and a massive padded foam jacket. Or, you know, whatever.).

I guess my thought here is that you're obviously a creative dude, as much as you say your focus is on (and as much as it pretty obviously is on) "engineering." I don't think you need to start sending out leathers with raw sleeves and asymmetrical hems ans destroyed silk fucking hoods or whatever, but I bet there's room in TOJ for some funky stuff, even if I don't know what that would be. You talk about CCP a lot, I guess as a sort of artisanal, pretty hard-core brand. It seems that the funkiness, for you, is in the patterning and material selection, but obviously there's plenty of space for stuff like quilted riders, colored leathers, etc; so basically I hope, for one, that you're not selling yourself short, and I also wonder what you'd do if you could step outside your business for a second, and say "I'm gonna make some crazy shit." It seems that your niche has been well-made classics, but obviously there's a draw to something as unique and personal as a jacket like the uncontrol rider (even if you just want to call that a "twist" on a classic).
post #11708 of 54803
I think what Drew was talking about is the difference between men's fashion and women's fashion. The beauty of men's fashion is the functionality and the straightforwardness of it; the jacket, tee, pants and shoes. I think it's the reason why there's a lower number of fashion designers working on men's clothing. For men's it's about building, refining and perfecting, being a tweaker and sweating the minute details (as Malcolm Gladwell categorizes Steve Jobs). That shit is hard and lesser noticed. Women's is more about inventing and conceptualizing, at the very least, it has more room for that. Fashion designers coming out of schools more or less have a mindset to be inventors and less tweakers, though it seems that some do appreciate the building and tinkering of the men's side of things (Rachel Comey for men's shoes). But that's just my 2 cents. I'm not crazy into fashion or even knowledgeable about it by any means, but I am a young designer (not in fashion but more on the graphic side of things and designing is pretty darn similar on all levels, it's just the medium of expression).

Props to Drew for knowing what he is and what he isn't. And thank you, in all honesty, for making quality and functional men's much more accessible for us.
post #11709 of 54803
Quote:
Originally Posted by impolyt_one View Post

Yeah anyway, unrelated to Woodyear; I just had a funny thought while sitting here looking at stuff -
some of you dudes who read fashion blogs, street snap blogs, whateva, you have probably inadvertently seen of the Korean fashion dudes on these sites lately, I don't really follow it but I can feel that it's become something of a recent phenomenon in the past couple years. I know nicelynice and aeglus even buy some of their clothes and probably know the guys I am talking about.
Anyway, those guys are fucking styling! Haha. They seriously love clothes and styling. it's been 3 years since Daul Kim died, and me and winq went out to this flea market around this time 3 years ago and saw her hanging out; she was with a couple fashion type dudes. When Daul saw me and winq wearing all these rare clothes (which was our prerogative at the time) she just said 'wowwwwwwwwwwww' in this high pitched voice. haha. Anyway, in the years since, the two guys I have seen many times again, lately they are stylists for 2NE1 and are designing clothes I think. They buy leather and fabric at the same places we do, so we bump elbows often, haven't ever talked to them either. They don't know what TOJ is, and I don't know what exactly they're doing, but obviously we each have a good idea of what we do, otherwise we wouldn't be at the same place buying leather and fabric, etc.
It just dawned on me though, those guys, they really love the styling aspect of shit, and I doubt they really like the engineering aspect of making clothes. They're the kind of Korean guys who trawl Yahoo JP auctions to get some Rick and Ann D at discount, because that shit is expensive in Korea, like $4K a pop for some stuff. Me, I'm the opposite. I spend like 6 months of the year in a white Hanes tee and some beat up jeans, some white sneakers - don't really care about what I wear, because I'm going to work. If it gets cold, I throw on a jacket or a coat. Funny how that works out in the end. On the clothes side, I have gained an appreciation for all this inner-circle Milanese and Firenze MC stuff lately, I get the suits made bespoke in person in Korea the way I want them, and then I add the italian shirt and tie, pocket square, some English shoes, but that is traditional and kind of obvious. Streetwear though, I hate overworked styling and stuff lately - I really like this effortless look, it's honest.
I saw Brad Pitt in person last week and yeah the guy is a multi-millionaire heavyweight, and wears a bunch of gothninja shit from Atelier, but you know what? It's a jacket, a tee shirt, a pair of pants that he wears a bit slouched, and some boots. The same basic formula that we all wear in some form or another. The guy obviously has some physical advantages, but he definitely follows the same basic style formula that I've been on about for years. Jacket, tee, jeans, shoes, each piece to complement each other while being basic and good in their own right.
Mrs TOJ went to fashion school in Tokyo long ago, and to be honest, she doesn't really pay much attention to what I do beyond the obvious, and doesn't really have much to say about TOJ. Sometimes she comments on the varsity jackets and says they're cute, etc. We don't do avant garde shit, and so it doesn't really grab people's attention as a package that way I guess, and I try not to let something like that take over my home life; when I come home, I am just at home, just like anybody else. Plus, if you're a woman, you don't really have anything to do with TOJ as it is now, unless a man inducts you by getting you a women's leather jacket.
Anyway, Mrs TOJ is brutally honest with me all the time even if she's not paying attention to what I actually make; what she wants (and of course I face this by saying it's unrealistic) is to see me do some sort of clean slate, abstract original designing on this haute/mode level, which is not the style or niche that TOJ is in. She doesn't quite understand that part, or the proverbial garden that I've been tending. She does say though, that in all her time at fashion school, around all these people who became fashion designers in Japan, that I have a completely different mindset about clothes than those people and it's far more engineered and focused on quality. I guess that is what I would hope for and try to express anyway, but the confirmation is nice. In clothesmaking there are stylists, and there are clothesmakers - I guess I am naturally the latter and not much of the former. I think a lot of the other affiliates on styleforum work the same way.
Just the proverbial cud that I've been chewing on, behind the scenes.

it's these deep and meaningful posts from drew that make me check this thread 2x daily! thanks for the insight!

what are these jeans of choice? any chance of some pics?
post #11710 of 54803
afaik APC PS
post #11711 of 54803
I love when you share your insight Drew, shit is enlightening.
post #11712 of 54803
Took my A-2 out today for a photowalk and some shopping and got a lot of compliments. Fucking love this jacket already. I was in a shop today and saw some dude trying on an A-2 that they sold in the store... I couldn't tell if it was genuinely vintage or "fake" vintage cause of the beat up look... but it didn't fit the guy at all... on second thought, should have forwarded him to the TOJ site...

Also, just a note... someone said a few pages back about the placket looking awkward if you sized wrong on the jacket.... I think Drew and I sized pretty well and the measurements came out very good but I guess my short torso makes the placket look really long... Probably takes up 80% of the zipper? Does the placket length change per jacket length?
post #11713 of 54803
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthese View Post

Drew, you just keep doin' your thang. I'll toast you when I'm eating my duck bacon. redface.gif
Also, I'm happy someone's finally talking about this "variation on a uniform" stuff. I usually dress the same way - sneakers, jeans, hanes, jacket, and really the only things I look for in clothes any more (aside from my occasional forays into haute mode) are variations on that theme ( I will say, however, that it's "fun," or maybe even fulfilling somehow, to, I don't know, have your throw-on winter uniform be something ludicrous like rick dunks, overdyed pants, and a massive padded foam jacket. Or, you know, whatever.).

Why? Because man as man himself in the late 20th and now 21st century has settled on a pull-on top, basic pants, and comfortable shoes as bastions of being male, part of sexuality, part of identity, and it doesn't matter if you're poking the pink or the stink, it works exactly the same way. I wish Fuuma could expound on this more, but I don't think he checks this thread that often (part of that might be because of the the 50 page amateur hours of peons trolling me) - but I feel he has something good to say about this. We see eye to eye in terms of how clothes manifest themselves in our daily outfits, but I think he has a very different, more sacred approach to explaining it. If it comes from me I worry I'd be tearing down all that is fun and mysterious along the way, as I tend to do.
post #11714 of 54803
Drew should send 10 ToJ business/referral cards with every jacket.
post #11715 of 54803
Thread Starter 
I'm at my limit in terms of numbers of what I can sell/make, almost. No need to give everybody in the world a chance at this, it's for the people who really need it now. It's not intended to be a deep well that everybody can drink from if they find it.
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