or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Streetwear and Denim › The new official TOJ thread, 2011
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The new official TOJ thread, 2011 - Page 2476

post #37126 of 41480
We could argue back and forth about whether I'm entitled to an accurate assessment of when my order will be shipped. I say yes; you say no. In my mind, TOJ is a business subject to the same rules one would apply to commerce in general (including appropriate criticisms). You think TOJ is a religion, its proprietors deities, your jacket a technicolor dreamcoat. I respect your point of view. That said, please don't tell me what I was and wasn't told.
post #37127 of 41480
Quote:
Originally Posted by killjoy32 View Post

You think TOJ is a religion, its proprietors deities, your jacket a technicolor dreamcoat.

 

... what?

 

No one has said anything like that. Here's what you've essentially been saying: "I know how TOJ works. I knew how TOJ worked when I bought my jacket. I'm disappointed in how TOJ works despite knowing exactly what I was getting into when I ordered."

post #37128 of 41480
Just because TOJ is cheap as shit compared to high-end leather brands doesn't mean that they do nothing wrong.

I have a number of TOJ products and I've never stressed out about wait times. I don't think most people should, either.

With that said, it seems pretty obvious that Charly should simply be super vague about wait time inquiries. They don't know how long it's going to take exactly, which is more than understandable. Then don't give strict timelines.

People don't get mad about NOT getting an accurate assessment, or about waiting a long time. They get mad about getting repeated INACCURATE assessments.

In the last year or so, it seems like Charly & co have been very optimistic when answering wait time emails. If that optimism (and specificity) of those estimates were to disappear, so would a lot of the complaints.

Once again, most complainers totally understand that if you pay less money, shit may take longer. It's harder to understand that they keep giving you estimates that are nowhere near realistic.
post #37129 of 41480
Quote:
Originally Posted by killjoy32 View Post

I do understand how TOJ operates. I'm expressing an opinion about one facet of the operation based on my personal experience (and professional experience in fashion, merchandising and ecommerce). I'm not asking anyone to agree with me, and I respect the opinions of those who don't. But the idea that vendors / companies / businesses / people aren't somehow responsible for giving accurate assessments of when their product will be delivered is ridiculous (and, yes, very fanboy-esque). It speaks volumes that even questioning this component of TOJ's business is somehow sacreligious. I don't care how large your operation is: when you take a customer's money, you owe them some modicum of respect.
You weren't following the thread when the obcd's were being made, right? Orders were pushed back because the sewer injured her hand, iirc. Drew's said before that some of the cutters/sewers are actually couples/married, so could you imagine what would happen if one of them had to take time off?

Shit happens, and this affects everyone when your business relies on a handful of skilled laborers and close relationships with vendors.

Your wait time is only an optimistic quote/estimate.
post #37130 of 41480
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicalporks View Post

... what?

No one has said anything like that. Here's what you've essentially been saying: "I know how TOJ works. I knew how TOJ worked when I bought my jacket. I'm disappointed in how TOJ works despite knowing exactly what I was getting into when I ordered."

I didn't know how TOJ works when I ordered, and that's my fault. But I asked the person who took my PayPal payment how long it would take, and I was given what turned out to be an innaccurate answer. In retrospect, obviously, I should have done a more thorough comb through of this thread before I ordered. Then I would have known better what to expect. I'm not freeing myself of blame, but I do think TOJ bears some of the liability as well. I don't think that's unfair.
post #37131 of 41480

I was watching Heejun Han (former American Idol contestant) on a similar Korean show - couldn't help wondering if he was wearing a black/black TOJ0...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9kECZClvJ8

post #37132 of 41480
i would consider TOJ more of a service than a business, which could be naive, but i'm sure that i'm not the only one who feels that way. drew has stated numerous times that there's enough profits to pay the workers and keep the wheels turning and not much more than that. the fact that you're complaining about their lack of professionalism shows that you have no appreciation for the fact that they've been making minimal profit and delivering us high quality garments for years, drew could have easily raised the prices and made it so they could guarantee things like delivery dates and whatnot. you haven't even gotten your jacket yet and you're already showing lack of appreciation.
post #37133 of 41480
Quote:
Originally Posted by clark kent View Post

i would consider TOJ more of a service than a business, which could be naive, but i'm sure that i'm not the only one who feels that way. drew has stated numerous times that there's enough profits to pay the workers and keep the wheels turning and not much more than that. the fact that you're complaining about their lack of professionalism shows that you have no appreciation for the fact that they've been making minimal profit and delivering us high quality garments for years, drew could have easily raised the prices and made it so they could guarantee things like delivery dates and whatnot. you haven't even gotten your jacket yet and you're already showing lack of appreciation.

Why do I need to show "appreciation"? I paid -- that's me showing appreciation. If you consider TOJ more of a service than a business, have you tipped on your purchases?

You know, it's OK for someone to express disappointment with his TOJ experience (in my case, repeated inaccurate ship dates). We can still love the product while acknowledging logistical issues.
post #37134 of 41480
Quote:
Originally Posted by clark kent View Post

i would consider TOJ more of a service than a business, which could be naive, but i'm sure that i'm not the only one who feels that way. drew has stated numerous times that there's enough profits to pay the workers and keep the wheels turning and not much more than that. the fact that you're complaining about their lack of professionalism shows that you have no appreciation for the fact that they've been making minimal profit and delivering us high quality garments for years, drew could have easily raised the prices and made it so they could guarantee things like delivery dates and whatnot. you haven't even gotten your jacket yet and you're already showing lack of appreciation.

 

 

 

 

What are you talking about lol. Of course TOJ is a business, and a very successful one at that. They're not making jackets out of charity.  

 

@killjoy32 you pretty much have two options here, wait for your jacket or cancel your order. It sucks but we're all waiting in line. IMO just relax and forget about it for a while. It's just a physical object, man, and you'll get it eventually. Not worth getting upset over. :) 

post #37135 of 41480
what i was saying went right over your head. obviously when it comes down to it they're a business lol, i just personally look at TOJ as more of a service. that doesn't mean that nobody's making money off of it. i meant it in a sense like, we're paying drew for his help to be swagged out. the MTM and forum presence that TOJ was built off of is personable to most of us. the minimal mark-up and the overhead being cut out, makes it feel like its more of a service to me.
post #37136 of 41480

Whatever they do some people are going to be upset. If they said no estimate was possible I'm sure there would be people upset about that, too.

 

I do admit I'm confused as to why they even attempt to give an estimate, though, as I don't think they have been able to accurately do so for at least a couple of years.

post #37137 of 41480
killjoy really living up to his name
post #37138 of 41480
Quote:
Originally Posted by killjoy32 View Post

We could argue back and forth about whether I'm entitled to an accurate assessment of when my order will be shipped. I say yes; you say no. In my mind, TOJ is a business subject to the same rules one would apply to commerce in general (including appropriate criticisms). You think TOJ is a religion, its proprietors deities, your jacket a technicolor dreamcoat. I respect your point of view. That said, please don't tell me what I was and wasn't told.

+1

 

Too many cats on here thin TOJ is a religion.  Good product, great price, but when money exchanges, business is taking place.  Being up front goes a long way with people.  If you set expectations, follow through.  If something changes that delays expectations, let people know.  99% will be understanding.

post #37139 of 41480

@kilijoy : What did you order? Did you change measurements several times? 

post #37140 of 41480
Quote:
Originally Posted by clark kent View Post

what i was saying went right over your head. obviously when it comes down to it they're a business lol, i just personally look at TOJ as more of a service. that doesn't mean that nobody's making money off of it. i meant it in a sense like, we're paying drew for his help to be swagged out. the MTM and forum presence that TOJ was built off of is personable to most of us. the minimal mark-up and the overhead being cut out, makes it feel like its more of a service to me.

How you want to conduct business is totally up to you.  You are not the norm.  I hope you do not conduct business this way in all areas of you life...otherwise you have a future of making real estate brokers, car dealerships, and future employers all very happy.  They will all take advantage of you. 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Streetwear and Denim
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Streetwear and Denim › The new official TOJ thread, 2011