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The new official TOJ thread, 2011 - Page 2395

post #35911 of 40689
2 and a half years later (2 inches taller and 20 lbs heavier) still one of the most comfy jackets when unzipped, but when zipped not so much..

Warning: Nexus5 phone camera is some of the worst quality eva (Click to show)



Basically I can't wear zipped.

Should I keep it or try to sell?
post #35912 of 40689

You can always try cutting, otherwise I don't know how much you'd actually get for your jacket on B&S.

post #35913 of 40689
Quote:
Originally Posted by VLSI View Post

Charly just emailed me, lead times are over 40 weeks, so just be patient and quit asking please.

IT'S OVER 9,000
post #35914 of 40689

Wow 40 weeks.. on the 20th week now.

post #35915 of 40689

10 months to get a jacket, wow. Hope that was blatant sarcasm

post #35916 of 40689
Clearly it went way over your heads. Apparently not blatant enough.

For perspective: I have a year and a half left wait at minimum on a service that I put over $1000 down as a deposit for. I get a single yearly update from them on roughly where I stand on the waitlist. It's already been two years.
post #35917 of 40689
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyc wid it View Post

Clearly it went way over your heads. Apparently not blatant enough.

For perspective: I have a year and a half left wait at minimum on a service that I put over $1000 down as a deposit for. I get a single yearly update from them on roughly where I stand on the waitlist. It's already been two years.

Guitar? Sounds like the wait time on a Languadoc.
post #35918 of 40689
1911 gunsmithing.
post #35919 of 40689
Quote:
Originally Posted by skitlets View Post

About the leather pulls, they don't have any on hand. I asked about them a while back.

thanks.
post #35920 of 40689
Thread Starter 
Time for an update. From all the discussion it just seems like people are kicking around. We'll stop taking orders completely before the end of the year, and production will go into 2014. I don't know what we'll do when we apply that last TOJ label to the final order and send it out, but I imagine it will be a pretty emotional one. Perhaps it might be relieving, I guess. MTM was a hell of a lot of work.

We're still balancing the restaurant life with TOJ. Dan and Sally are doing the weekly production on those. Charly communicates with them, but frankly the scale of our workload and the variety of the orders means that hunting your place down on the assembly line gets to be, well, annoying. If I could've paid another person whose job it would've been to constantly go back and forth minding the line, then yes, that would've added to the cost of the pieces.

Speaking to that, and to tie in some things from my restaurant life - TOJ was never built on any particular model, just a lot of common sense. In the real world I was able to find flexibility and the model created itself. It was good. However, as you guys know, we ran as slim as possible in order to offer fair prices. Hence things like the plastic bags for shipping versus boxes.

TOJ model:

1) extremely high labor cost due to absolutely individual production+the best materials we can get our hands on+flexible production system
2) lowest possible overhead (almost $0, apart from this thread) - no office, no brick and mortar, no sales reps wasting time away on a floor, no fancy packaging, no glitter or show
3) minimal markup (just enough to recoup losses in case of lost/error items)

Traditional fashion model:

1) low labor cost (trimmed as low as possible, factory production) + varying range of materials + inflexible, set production
2) huge overhead costs, the sky is the limit.
3) fixed markup at wholesale (5-10x manufacture cost) -> 2.5-3.2x retail middleman boutique pricing

What I felt long ago but really am coming around to now is that TOJ pricing could've been a little more expensive in order to stay healthier. There was no fixed markup ratio, but it always remained low. The wallets were almost to the point of being a charity project. Things like that happen when you work this way.

As for restaurants - well, I spent years rationalizing a lot of TOJ processes as being analagous to restaurants - and it turned out that I was right after all..... for the most part. We went into this shop with another person who also believes in the virtuous low pricing models, delivering high quality for a surprisingly low price - I think that doesn't work in restaurants, after all. In clothing, we were able to cover the gap by slashing all the unnecessary costs; in food and drink, it turns we can't really do that. It's only been three months for me, but I am seeing that more formal computations are required, and that lavish offerings and add-ins simply don't have the same place as they do in clothing, at least in my current restaurant setting. There will be some fine tuning there, but I learned a ton about that business for very little money, so I guess it was worth it.

I have been cooking on the line. I got two cooks to help me, and I plan small menus that balance movement, efficiency, inventory turnover and freshness, and I compensate for the shortcomings of a tiny tiny kitchen with technologies such as sous vide. It's still a hell of a lot of work, about 12-14 hrs a day at the shop. The two cooks are fantastic workers and have really changed my outlook on a lot of things. One girl came in to interview, wearing a fitted hat and carrying a skateboard, and said she was just told to show up; I didn't really know what to make of her so I told her to go over to the corner that was less busy and mince me a half a dozen onions. She ended up doing so with technical proficiency and speed, and I was impressed. She did a few more tasks and I realized she was good for the job. That's been a month or so now, but she has really impressed me with her work ethic and her ability to get the job done. It has been humbling to work alongside her. We're scrubbing down deep fryers, taking out big food refuse bins, it's ugly and the pure essence of work, the constant doings, standing on your own two feet. I was working hard and trying to work harder than anyone else, but these kids try to out work me. Anyway, that part is good. I am glad to have had this experience if only for getting back into the real world, off the internet fashion sphere for a short time.

I obviously spend a little time thinking about clothes while I'm standing there all day cooking. I know for sure that I don't want to return to the TOJ MTM model again. To me, it was an added bonus that you could MTM while being a million times more work, but I still feel that 90% of people could fit into OTR sizes. As you can see, people have been able to B+S used TOJ mostly successfully, fit-wise; I feel prices on the secondary market are even too low, considering. Also, I still contend that I never liked 90% or more of the 'custom' deviations from the original baseline offerings, and I want to take back control of the design.

I will make clothes again at a later date. I don't know when, and it would be completely from scratch and independent of TOJ, new factories, new ways of procuring materials, I want to cut some of the lavish costs that were involved in TOJ, in order try things like nicer packaging and better visual and short communications. Answering questions about lead times gets old, so MTM has failed itself if people don't understand the fundamental concept of human-made things to order. Most of all, I want to make something different, and I want to one up myself while having learned what I liked and didn't like about TOJ. We made a ton of leather jackets, yes, but we also made clothes in general, plus small leather goods. We never explored the latter fully enough. We never explored women's clothing. There are so many things left to do, but I have to find a way to organize them into one house. Nothing more to say on that, as absolutely zero has been made yet, but I have some thoughts swarming in my head about the separate entity.
post #35921 of 40689
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by impolyt_one View Post

Time for an update. From all the discussion it just seems like people are kicking around. We'll stop taking orders completely before the end of the year, and production will go into 2014. I don't know what we'll do when we apply that last TOJ label to the final order and send it out, but I imagine it will be a pretty emotional one. Perhaps it might be relieving, I guess. MTM was a hell of a lot of work.

We're still balancing the restaurant life with TOJ. Dan and Sally are doing the weekly production on those. Charly communicates with them, but frankly the scale of our workload and the variety of the orders means that hunting your place down on the assembly line gets to be, well, annoying. If I could've paid another person whose job it would've been to constantly go back and forth minding the line, then yes, that would've added to the cost of the pieces.

Speaking to that, and to tie in some things from my restaurant life - TOJ was never built on any particular model, just a lot of common sense. In the real world I was able to find flexibility and the model created itself. It was good. However, as you guys know, we ran as slim as possible in order to offer fair prices. Hence things like the plastic bags for shipping versus boxes.

TOJ model:

1) extremely high labor cost due to absolutely individual production+the best materials we can get our hands on+flexible production system
2) lowest possible overhead (almost $0, apart from this thread) - no office, no brick and mortar, no sales reps wasting time away on a floor, no fancy packaging, no glitter or show
3) minimal markup (just enough to recoup losses in case of lost/error items)

Traditional fashion model:

1) low labor cost (trimmed as low as possible, factory production) + varying range of materials + inflexible, set production
2) huge overhead costs, the sky is the limit.
3) fixed markup at wholesale (5-10x manufacture cost) -> 2.5-3.2x retail middleman boutique pricing

What I felt long ago but really am coming around to now is that TOJ pricing could've been a little more expensive in order to stay healthier. There was no fixed markup ratio, but it always remained low. The wallets were almost to the point of being a charity project. Things like that happen when you work this way.

As for restaurants - well, I spent years rationalizing a lot of TOJ processes as being analagous to restaurants - and it turned out that I was right after all..... for the most part. We went into this shop with another person who also believes in the virtuous low pricing models, delivering high quality for a surprisingly low price - I think that doesn't work in restaurants, after all. In clothing, we were able to cover the gap by slashing all the unnecessary costs; in food and drink, it turns we can't really do that. It's only been three months for me, but I am seeing that more formal computations are required, and that lavish offerings and add-ins simply don't have the same place as they do in clothing, at least in my current restaurant setting. There will be some fine tuning there, but I learned a ton about that business for very little money, so I guess it was worth it.

I have been cooking on the line. I got two cooks to help me, and I plan small menus that balance movement, efficiency, inventory turnover and freshness, and I compensate for the shortcomings of a tiny tiny kitchen with technologies such as sous vide. It's still a hell of a lot of work, about 12-14 hrs a day at the shop. The two cooks are fantastic workers and have really changed my outlook on a lot of things. One girl came in to interview, wearing a fitted hat and carrying a skateboard, and said she was just told to show up; I didn't really know what to make of her so I told her to go over to the corner that was less busy and mince me a half a dozen onions. She ended up doing so with technical proficiency and speed, and I was impressed. She did a few more tasks and I realized she was good for the job. That's been a month or so now, but she has really impressed me with her work ethic and her ability to get the job done. It has been humbling to work alongside her. We're scrubbing down deep fryers, taking out big food refuse bins, it's ugly and the pure essence of work, the constant doings, standing on your own two feet. I was working hard and trying to work harder than anyone else, but these kids try to out work me. Anyway, that part is good. I am glad to have had this experience if only for getting back into the real world, off the internet fashion sphere for a short time.

I obviously spend a little time thinking about clothes while I'm standing there all day cooking. I know for sure that I don't want to return to the TOJ MTM model again. To me, it was an added bonus that you could MTM while being a million times more work, but I still feel that 90% of people could fit into OTR sizes. As you can see, people have been able to B+S used TOJ mostly successfully, fit-wise; I feel prices on the secondary market are even too low, considering. Also, I still contend that I never liked 90% or more of the 'custom' deviations from the original baseline offerings, and I want to take back control of the design.

I will make clothes again at a later date. I don't know when, and it would be completely from scratch and independent of TOJ, new factories, new ways of procuring materials, I want to cut some of the lavish costs that were involved in TOJ, in order try things like nicer packaging and better visual and short communications. Answering questions about lead times gets old, so MTM has failed itself if people don't understand the fundamental concept of human-made things to order. Most of all, I want to make something different, and I want to one up myself while having learned what I liked and didn't like about TOJ. We made a ton of leather jackets, yes, but we also made clothes in general, plus small leather goods. We never explored the latter fully enough. We never explored women's clothing. There are so many things left to do, but I have to find a way to organize them into one house. Nothing more to say on that, as absolutely zero has been made yet, but I have some thoughts swarming in my head about the separate entity.

GL with the restaurant. Maybe I missed it earlier but is it open already?
post #35922 of 40689
post #35923 of 40689
Quote:
Originally Posted by impolyt_one View Post

I will make clothes again at a later date. I don't know when, and it would be completely from scratch and independent of TOJ, new factories, new ways of procuring materials, I want to cut some of the lavish costs that were involved in TOJ, in order try things like nicer packaging and better visual and short communications. 

 

Looking forward to your next clothing project. Best brand of outerwear ever. 

post #35924 of 40689

Oh my god a separate entity

post #35925 of 40689

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