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The new official TOJ thread, 2011 - Page 2256

post #33826 of 45104

I ordered a TOJ0 in April and was given an 8-week lead time, it's been about 17 weeks now and pushed back a couple times.  It doesn't bother me that much because it's hot here and I don't need it yet.

 

I get the frustration but I also understand a lot of unforeseen things have happened since and these things are stupidly hard to gauge - I'm surprised we still get numbers when we ask instead of a range.  It's that expectation of an exact time that kind of gets people.  White's'll tell you 4-8 weeks, other MTO whatever places'll tell you 4-6, 8-12, anything, but if you've familiarized yourself a bit with TOJ you know what you're getting into.  There shouldn't be a delusion of an exact 8 weeks.

post #33827 of 45104
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrchariybrown View Post

Yes, it is me.. Charly.

We obviously don't have an automated order system, so once in a blue moon orders fall through the cracks (it's only happened a few times, once by my fault, once on production end, and once because I never received a payment confirmation from Paypal).

I wanted to know your name on your Paypal payment to make sure your jacket was in line to be made as I wouldn't want you to wait any longer than necessary.

If you don't want to give me your name, I respect your decision..

But you might just be waiting 5 years (without a jacket) if what I stated is the case.

Typical. Name any other customer service person that would say that? You don't give a fuck Charly, that's the problem.

No, we've had a couple of email exchanges. Well, exchanges is a bit strong. One word. You've barely acknowledged me, but I'm in your queue.
Don't worry Charly, soon you'll be involved face to face with customers if you're involved in the food business.

Everyone else is getting the wrong impression.
I'm not knocking TOJ for 6 month lead times. It's perfectly reasonable for a small firm to have these problems.

I just think I've been caught in this mess because of the announcement of the end of MTO.
I ordered way before this was announced and was given a lead time by Charly of approx 8 weeks. Now I've seen people post on here the exact same colours as I ordered and they ordered AFTER me. Now tell me, what the hell should I think? The batches thing is BS.
I'm not in a queue. I'm in a lottery, and the people holding it are taking the piss.

All it took was this.

Hi,
Your order is taking a little longer than expected. Really sorry.

Regards
Charly

But I wait well over the 8 weeks that THEY TOLD ME. I emailed asking what's going on and I get.......

No date, still in queue.

No hello, no regards, no fuck all. It is crap CS.
post #33828 of 45104
Quote:
Originally Posted by migsy999 View Post

I've thought about it, but why should I?

They've had my money for over three months now. What's my incentive for a refund, interest paid?

The problem here seems to be that you set yourself up with these crazy expectations.

Good customer service is great, but to get that from ToJ, we'd be easily paying an extra 20% more on our orders. Dedicated support isn't cheap, and you're an idiot if you think otherwise.

I've personally had orders take months, and it's no big deal, I stay polite and I don't act like an entitled cunt.

Complaining and then not being willing to chat with Charly about your order just makes you seem like an idiot.

You're lucky they don't just set up a non-refundable deposit like places like Viberg do...
post #33829 of 45104

Migsy,

If you've followed TOJ for any part of its existence, you'd know the lead times are pretty random, and that customer service is just Charly.  When was the last time you saw a clothing company of this quality, with this many models, run by 3 dudes?  It gets a little wacky obviously, but when you get your jacket, you really won't care, unless you're super sensitive and buying a jacket was more about making a friend than getting a dope piece of wearable art.

 

Now will you kindly shut the fuck up?

post #33830 of 45104

I'd say that average wait times are anywhere from 4-6 months.

If you've never dealt with ToJ before then I could agree that the ToJ crew could use some better communication, but openly complaining and outright refusing to allow them to try to do anything for you is just ludicrous.

 

Drew said it best himself...

 

 

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Potsnu View Post

I think it's in your right to question the cut edges and correlate that to being a quality issue. I think your intentions were pure, but a quick email to Charly would have probably answered that question.

You might not know it based on the way I have been ordering the past few weeks, easily dropped close to $4000 but I've had two issues with TOJ since I became a customer. One of the issues was the very first jacket I ordered. I won't mention the issues since it's not really relevant but...

Instead of taking the issue to the forums, I reached out to TOJ directly and had the issue resolve to my satisfaction. I'm a firm believer that when a customer issue arises, if resolved correctly by the company you will actually gain loyalty more so than your average customer. On the other hand, if you don't resolve it correctly you will lose them forever.

If and when I don't get a satisfactory resolution, then and only then would I take up the issue on public message boards.

Now to Drew's point, he understands that cutting corners is impossible without customers noticing. There's many Asian restaurants in Toronto that fail because they have great price points and great food, but over time they start to skimp out on quality, ingredients, while jacking the price up at the same time. Customers notice this and those restaurants tend to not last very long after that. I don't even give them the luxury of pointing these mistakes out.

This is the best/fairest etiquette, though it's hard for people to understand an abide by. The nature of forums gives everybody license to blab more than is needed. The upside, as was said, is that other users can give insight to products and the end experience (which is hard for even the seller to give, as they're in the middle of that process) - and that's useful as an objective standpoint from which to make your judgement - but there's the obvious downside too, in which we start delving into what is frankly speaking, stupid discussion regarding things like zippers, quality, and all manners of things which no one else really knows enough about to speak on. The other downside is that if people get something that doesn't work for some reason, they often take it straight the forums, straight to people who can't help - whereas if they bring the issue to us, we fix it. On other sites where TOJ is discussed, the words vary from kind to scathing, and the latter is often simply trollish non-owners dropping their 2 yen into cyberspace, unnecessarily. I have no desire to chase down and post on every site where TOJ or my name comes up, and you have to take everything with a grain of salt - do you guys remember that guy who took an ill-fitting jacket to baseline measure and then sent us the measurements for a varsity vis a vis without using any common sense to adjust the measurements to his liking, and then posting back in anger that the jacket didn't fit as he wanted it to? He's over on Niketalk using every post that TOJ comes up in to rag on us, and you know, come on. Idiocy. To be completely honest, with people who have gone on the forums on rampages about issues that could've been fixed had they brought it to us instead - I often get put off and feel less inclined to service those people, as would many. In worst case scenarios, there was indeed a blacklist where we just didn't allow certain names to order from us again. One's experience is not another's, but we have always tried to deliver the best for each person - that's why we never got rid of the one by one ordering system. Every piece made has a person's name attached to it, and at work we can discuss them by piece, i.e. 'is James' jacket finished yet? Paul wants a detail change. Chris from Alberta needs some extra snaps included with his jacket that's going out' and so on, and so on. We know your names and your orders just like a restaurant kitchen does, but this thread wasn't really intended to be the TOJ yelp space....
post #33831 of 45104
Quote:
Originally Posted by migsy999 View Post

Now I've seen people post on here the exact same colours as I ordered and they ordered AFTER me. Now tell me, what the hell should I think? The batches thing is BS.

Once again.. smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrchariybrown View Post


We obviously don't have an automated order system, so once in a blue moon orders fall through the cracks (it's only happened a few times, once by my fault, once on production end, and once because I never received a payment confirmation from Paypal).

I wanted to know your name on your Paypal payment to make sure your jacket was in line to be made as I wouldn't want you to wait any longer than necessary.
post #33832 of 45104
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamacyborg View Post

The problem here seems to be that you set yourself up with these crazy expectations.

Good customer service is great, but to get that from ToJ, we'd be easily paying an extra 20% more on our orders. Dedicated support isn't cheap, and you're an idiot if you think otherwise.

I've personally had orders take months, and it's no big deal, I stay polite and I don't act like an entitled cunt.

Complaining and then not being willing to chat with Charly about your order just makes you seem like an idiot.

You're lucky they don't just set up a non-refundable deposit like places like Viberg do...

You're the cunt.
I've only been polite with Charly and TOJ and not received the same courtesy.
As to adding 20% for a polite email, what fucking planet are you on?

I'm not complaint about the wait. I'm complaining about the total lack of information about a jacket now nearly double the estimated time.

So I'm now the bad guy that I don't converse with Charly on an open forum. Well it's all good for Charly to come here defending himself in public after I've complained, but it didn't get me anywhere in private. A hello, sorry and thanks goes a long way. It's too late being all concerned now for all the TOJ sycophants on here to see.
post #33833 of 45104
I'm not aiming to defend myself at all. I just want to find out what the issue (if any at all) is with your order. You can email me if you'd like. smile.gif
post #33834 of 45104
The problem is, those of us defending ToJ are doing so because we've bought things, and because we know shit happens with orders and lead times are long. It's nothing to do with being sycophantic, and everything to do with standing up for some of the few people out there who produce stunning products with pathetically small margins just for the joy of it.

It's no surprise Drew wants to get out of this biz when he has to deal with this kind of BS.


/edit

Anyway, this stuff isn't any of my business. Apologies to Drew and Charly and the rest of the ToJ crew.
post #33835 of 45104
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrchariybrown View Post

Once again.. smile.gif

Charly, I mailed you a couple of weeks after the original 8 week estimate you gave me. I got the standard short reply. In queue, don't know.
I waited another few weeks and then decided to ask about the time frame. Got another short answer, 2-3 weeks.

Now explain this please. If you knew who you were talking to, I'm in the system yes? Either that you just blatantly lied to get me off your back.
So back to square one. You all agree that TOJ is well known for the long wait. Why would Charly say 8 weeks? I realise that's an estimate. I'm under no illusion that I get my jacket in 8 weeks. So all I did was enquire weeks after how much longer approx?

Now I get one or two word emails that don't really explain anything. I'm just kept in the dark with no apology. Call me old fashioned but how hard is it to write a short sorry at the end of an email?

Then it irks that I see a batch has gone out in my colour options? I'm in the queue supposedly and Charly knows this as he'd assured me by letting me know by acknowledging my email. So I'm not lost, therefore there's no need to give you my details.

It's a lottery like I say.


It's ironic now too that Charly is able to defend TOJ so eloquently but can't apply the same time and vocabulary to a simple email.
post #33836 of 45104
When/if you want to email me again, please feel free. I will be happy to assist. smile.gif
post #33837 of 45104
No thanks Charly. I've had my say. I'm sorry it had to be here, but that's the only way to get more than two words out of you.
post #33838 of 45104
Wow, shit got heated up in here.

I can sympathise with you, migsy999. Placing an order then seeing other people who ordered the same jacket in the same colour way as you after you did post fits without having a tracking number would be pretty shit.

I don't think TOJ has terrible customer service. Have you ever emailed them and been ignored? Or have you received a reply to every email?

Charly doesn't mince words, he's straight to the point. I don't see this as rude, personally. He's a busy guy who gets swamped with emails from people like me fretting over 0.2" on their lengths and changing their minds multiple times. He always replied to me with the exact information I needed, even if he wasn't overly polite about it.

As iamacyborgy said, I don't think we can really expect the level of customer service that would allow TOJ to, for example, personally check up on every "my jacket is later than the quoted lead time" email they receive.

I'm sure that Charly would, however, make time to do this if the problem was directly and explicitly stated. Did you state the date that you ordered and the fact that other people who ordered the same jacket in the same colourway at a later date have received their jackets before you? I'm sure this would prompt the guys at TOJ to personally check up on your order.

I think it's pretty sad to see some of the hostile responses from other forum members in relation to your posts, which obviously arise from frustration.

I seriously doubt that Charly would push your jacket back out of spite, I'm sure he would do just the opposite.

Best of luck getting it sorted.
post #33839 of 45104
So you complain on an open forum about not getting adequate help, then when offered help you reject it out of fear of childish retribution? Then yes, no one will care about your pity party. For me and many others Charly has been nothing but helpful and courteous.
post #33840 of 45104
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesamourai View Post

So you complain on an open forum about not getting adequate help, then when offered help you reject it out of fear of childish retribution? Then yes, no one will care about your pity party. For me and many others Charly has been nothing but helpful and courteous.

Thanks! But I'll be completely honest and say that some very busy days, I will email shorter replies that gets to the point. I kind of know where migsy999 is coming from (to a point).

Since it's just me manning the emails (in addition to a full-time office job), when I want to get emails replied to as quickly as possible, sometimes I've sacrifice some please's and thank you's in lieu of prompt responsive time.

I don't know why he won't let me help resolve what his issue is though.

I (and Daniel and Drew) really do want to get your jackets out to you guys as soon as we possibly can without cutting corners on quality. I apologize for being a bit optimistic at times with the pace we three can work at.
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