The new official TOJ thread, 2011

post #22306 of 30787

8/22/12 at 3:20pm

Emixam

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aether

thanks on that sneaker ID, yall
lamb leather = fast fashion. IM SORRY, and I'm probably the only one who thinks this, but thats just my PERSONAL IMPRESSION. if you go to H&M, or some other retailer and they have a true leather jacket its always that plushy lamb stuff. It feels nice on the showroom floor, it breaks in quickly, but it wears out quickly. disposable fashion. It doesn't lend itself to the patina that harder wearing leathers get. Look at all the artisan leather guys like Guidi, CCP, whatever. They use kangaroo, horse, calf, deer, and other hard-wearing leathers on their grail pieces.
Think about it in terms of footwear too. That shell cordovon shit is what a lot of guys want. It ripples more than its creases and cracks. It also gets a beautiful patina. Its a very tough leather from the ass of a horse...
just my experience and part of the reason for my calf preference.

I tend to agree with you. I used to own a calf guidi jacket and the leather was amazing, but really tough and uncomfortable at first. I had to resell it because of this actually, I could only wear it wit a Tshirt underneath. Anyway TOJ lamb is noticeably thicker than the commonly used lamb by other cheaper and more expensive labels. I still think it is a pretty good deal, but if I could, I would have bought my A2 in horse or Kangaroo leather (kangaroo is fantastic) - unfortunately it was not possible.

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post #22307 of 30787

8/22/12 at 3:30pm

omgcookielol

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aether

lamb leather = fast fashion. IM SORRY, and I'm probably the only one who thinks this, but thats just my PERSONAL IMPRESSION. if you go to H&M, or some other retailer and they have a true leather jacket its always that plushy lamb stuff. It feels nice on the showroom floor, it breaks in quickly, but it wears out quickly. disposable fashion.

Do you have a TOJ in lamb? If you compare TOJ's lamb jackets side-by-side with most mid-to-low tier lamb leathers (I have), you would know that this is a terrible comparison in terms of construction and material grade. ... and that's what will inevitably determine an item's longevity. Like mikey said, it would be like comparing wool from H&M to a higher end coat... Or using a banana republic/J. Crew cashmere sweater to set the foundation for what you believe cashmere's really like.

TOJ lamb's strength is that it drapes well, looks good, and feels nice - it gives off a very luxe vibe. Calf is thick and dense - cool if you need it, but a lot of us probably don't. TOJ lamb will probably last you decades if you don't do something outrageously stupid with it (a lamb 2010 dr is cool for brawls, but not for knife fights). If you're going to wear calf in situations that require its density, it probably won't last you as long as a TOJ lamb that was used for fashunz.

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post #22308 of 30787

8/22/12 at 3:31pm

13k

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Has there been any mention on the change of v-quilted zipper flap on some of the models? I personally like the longer one...

Examples:

VLSI Recent WAYWT

Willy's TOJ battle fit:

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post #22309 of 30787

8/22/12 at 3:33pm

omgcookielol

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3/4 placket was available for stuff that got sent out earlier, but then 1/2 became the standard (if you opted for a placket you could only get it in 1/2) sometime after in 2011.

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post #22310 of 30787

8/22/12 at 3:39pm

omgcookielol

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Quote:

Originally Posted by brad-t

I don't think they're offering black hardware anymore, though I could be wrong. Maybe there is some left still.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meis

I think the black hardware is/was an option until the stock on hand ran out... don't know if it's gone or not. When I ordered my mdr in mid-late may it was still an option along with gunmetal and silver.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that they just said they'll have black as an option until the stock runs out, and won't restock them in the future.

Whenever I make up my mind, I'll ask Charly if they've still got black zips, but a 2011 moto (with quilting!?) would make a nice addition to my existing collection of murdered out lamb TOJs. icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif

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post #22311 of 30787

8/22/12 at 3:46pm

uNiCoRnPriNcEsSx

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Quote:

Originally Posted by omgcookielol

TOJ lamb's strength is that it drapes well, looks good, and feels nice - it gives off a very luxe vibe. Calf is thick and dense - cool if you need it, but a lot of us probably don't. TOJ lamb will probably last you decades if you don't do something outrageously stupid with it (a lamb 2010 dr is cool for brawls, but not for knife fights). If you're going to wear calf in situations that require its density, it probably won't last you as long as a TOJ lamb that was used for fashunz.

Since the term "knife fight" keeps getting thrown around, just wanted to make something exceedingly clear. Usage of this phrase is for metaphorical purposes only. ToJ calf is still not going to stop a knife. A dog bite, sure. But anyone who knows what they're doing with something pointy will only stab.

Might be a no-brainer for most, but it looks like there are a lot of newbs lurking that believe everything they read on the internet.

/end public service annoucement. Someone had to say it.

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post #22312 of 30787

8/22/12 at 3:54pm

brad-t
Angry Transvestite

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Quote:

Originally Posted by aether

thanks on that sneaker ID, yall
lamb leather = fast fashion. IM SORRY, and I'm probably the only one who thinks this, but thats just my PERSONAL IMPRESSION. if you go to H&M, or some other retailer and they have a true leather jacket its always that plushy lamb stuff. It feels nice on the showroom floor, it breaks in quickly, but it wears out quickly. disposable fashion. It doesn't lend itself to the patina that harder wearing leathers get. Look at all the artisan leather guys like Guidi, CCP, whatever. They use kangaroo, horse, calf, deer, and other hard-wearing leathers on their grail pieces.
Think about it in terms of footwear too. That shell cordovon shit is what a lot of guys want. It ripples more than its creases and cracks. It also gets a beautiful patina. Its a very tough leather from the ass of a horse...
just my experience and part of the reason for my calf preference.

Whether or not it's a personal impression, you're getting slammed for it -- and rightly so -- because it's just totally absurd.

Guidi, CCP, m.a.+, incarnation, etc are doing a totally different aesthetic that just does not suit lamb. Those jackets are not meant to be smooth and sleek. They are meant to look weathered, with lots of crinkling and glossiness, so of course lamb is a non-starter there. Drew's designs are meant to be smooth, relaxed and relatively classic, so lamb is a great material choice. There are a lot of shitty, cheap jackets available in calf leather too. The lamb Toj uses and the lamb H&M uses may as well be two completely different animals (in terms of the lives lead, they probably are).

There's also the fact that there are plenty of luxury houses producing lamb leather jackets. Tom Ford is certainly not fast fashion.

Footwear is also a totally stupid example, because you wear shoes on your feet. The durability standards of a shoe are totally different from a jacket. That "shell cordovan shit" is what a small handful of guys want, actually. Otherwise it probably wouldn't be so fucking hard to find. Most people order their Toj jackets in lamb, I believe, so I believe the consumer has spoken on that one.

This isn't to say calf is a bad material for a Toj jacket -- sometimes I wish I had gone calf on mine -- but to even insinuate that the Toj lamb is fast fashion is just ridiculous. And someone else commented it will last a "few seasons" -- what the fuck are you guys doing in your jackets? If you're not riding or getting in knife fights or cradling cats this is mostly just masturbation, you're just wearing a jacket you're not a fucking action hero. Your lamb jacket is going to last you many, many years if you take care of it. It's not armor-like like the calf is, but it's a reasonably durable material.

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post #22313 of 30787

8/22/12 at 3:59pm

johanm

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I have a lamb CM and have a calf 4-zip on the way. Have worn the lamb several times and it does not feel at all flimsy the way that H&M/Uniqlo jackets do. I think Drew has said that the thickness of the 2 leathers is the same, with twice the density on calf. I ordered calf not for durability/toughness, but so that I have 2 jackets with different types of patina.

These are the pics that convinced me that having both wouldn't be redundant:

main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=11156&g2_serialNumber=2

main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=11156&g2_serialNumber=2

main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=11959&g2_serialNumber=2

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post #22314 of 30787

8/22/12 at 5:34pm

Arethusa

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Eh? Aren't those both pictures of lamb jackets?

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post #22315 of 30787

8/22/12 at 6:08pm

poly800rock

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mine is calf

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post #22316 of 30787

8/22/12 at 6:09pm

aether

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Quote:

Originally Posted by brad-t

Whether or not it's a personal impression, you're getting slammed for it -- and rightly so -- because it's just totally absurd.
Guidi, CCP, m.a.+, incarnation, etc are doing a totally different aesthetic that just does not suit lamb. Those jackets are not meant to be smooth and sleek. They are meant to look weathered, with lots of crinkling and glossiness, so of course lamb is a non-starter there. Drew's designs are meant to be smooth, relaxed and relatively classic, so lamb is a great material choice. There are a lot of shitty, cheap jackets available in calf leather too. The lamb Toj uses and the lamb H&M uses may as well be two completely different animals (in terms of the lives lead, they probably are).
There's also the fact that there are plenty of luxury houses producing lamb leather jackets. Tom Ford is certainly not fast fashion.
Footwear is also a totally stupid example, because you wear shoes on your feet. The durability standards of a shoe are totally different from a jacket. That "shell cordovan shit" is what a small handful of guys want, actually. Otherwise it probably wouldn't be so fucking hard to find. Most people order their Toj jackets in lamb, I believe, so I believe the consumer has spoken on that one.
This isn't to say calf is a bad material for a Toj jacket -- sometimes I wish I had gone calf on mine -- but to even insinuate that the Toj lamb is fast fashion is just ridiculous. And someone else commented it will last a "few seasons" -- what the fuck are you guys doing in your jackets? If you're not riding or getting in knife fights or cradling cats this is mostly just masturbation, you're just wearing a jacket you're not a fucking action hero. Your lamb jacket is going to last you many, many years if you take care of it. It's not armor-like like the calf is, but it's a reasonably durable material.

feelin huffy are we?

I think johan's pics prove the case for lamb more than anything else can. And i should add that I am speaking of lamb in general, NOT TOJ LAMB NECESSARILY, OK? as johan's pics show, it seems to be some damn good lamb hide. But my previoius statements are just my general impression of lamb and leather hides in general and what I've observed. Some people sorta agree, others scathingly do not and thats fine.

I got one of the large zip wallets he introduced many a moon ago. I'd like to know for sure; is it lamb? Because it is blistering and scuffing in a strange way. don't get me wrong, I still love it, but if it turns out to be lamb it would be a good case against its durability, GENERALLY SPEAKING OF COURSE (DISCLAIMER: not talking specifically about TOJ so you don't need to prove to me TOJ has good lamb)

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post #22317 of 30787

8/22/12 at 6:16pm