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The new official TOJ thread, 2011 - Page 1451

post #21751 of 31647
8/2/12 at 9:35pm
Like the idea of putting growth capital into TOJ and am confident someone on SF will jump at the opportunity to join the team. That said, if I was an impartial investor I'd perceive most of the value in the Korean manufacturing and jobber leather sourcing setup, a bit in the paper jacket patterns, and a bit in the internet forum goodwill. I'd frankly pass on the riri zips and custom leather runs and just want a game plan for scaling up the production of $800 MTM motos and bombers.
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post #21752 of 31647
8/3/12 at 7:00am
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
One is a beginner’s level job that can only be filled in Seoul. I need someone who can do communicating with locals and improve our resource spread, develop relationships, and help with production. Obviously, this person needs to be a native Korean or someone who can speak native-level Korean. Unfortunately, that is my need, so I can’t budge from that and accept a different skill set to supplicate for that – the primary job skill with be speaking with people. I have no education or previous work requirements for this job, and the work hours and schedule will be mostly a self-responsbility. I will have tasks to be performed, and all I ask is that they be done to satisfaction. I don’t care at what hour of the day or what day of the week they are done on, as long as they are done by deadline and done with thoroughness. Quite simple.
I realize most people on styleforum are not in Korea, nor can they speak Korean, but just throwing that out there. Would obviously prefer someone who is interested in clothing, but even then, as long as someone is just a diligent worker with the kind of responsibility to be able to appreciate the kind of job terms I am offering – it could be great. There’s not much work to do, and if someone was both very smart and efficient, it could be a matter of a few minutes on the day. I will pay a flat monthly salary rate for this job if the tasks are completed without fail. The job will be conditional month to month, but I am open to it being a full-time, long-term position.

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post #21753 of 31647
8/3/12 at 11:43pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by johanm View Post

Like the idea of putting growth capital into TOJ and am confident someone on SF will jump at the opportunity to join the team. That said, if I was an impartial investor I'd perceive most of the value in the Korean manufacturing and jobber leather sourcing setup, a bit in the paper jacket patterns, and a bit in the internet forum goodwill. I'd frankly pass on the riri zips and custom leather runs and just want a game plan for scaling up the production of $800 MTM motos and bombers.

Well, I disagree with almost all of that, don't be offended - but I think you're not seeing the forest for the trees here.

Korean manufacturing/supply chain = changeable if needed. Manufacturing can be developed/re-developed/changed to suit. A supply chain is not that hard to get into, also completely moveable. Part of adding a bigger financial resource pool would be to replicate this system in other places as well, like Japan, the USA, Europe, etc. It would require both HR and time/investment. We've done the Korean part already, but the possibility for adding more is just a matter of work to be done.

Paper patterns = worth something only if the person who draws them maintains working control of them - otherwise the modularity hurts. My job is to direct those with somebody who draws them, or to draw them myself. Either or, but it's internal thing that people aren't going to profit off unless there were HR behind it. Not a big part of the equation here. Clothes are ever changing and need patterns to be made. That's just a given part of the system.

Internet forum equity = good, but again, it's changeable if so desired. None of this is written in stone, these are just past setup styles. There's nothing stopping me from making more sales points. I just never did it previously because our capacity for work was reached and stayed there the whole time.

Trying to crank up what is/has been there already = just revving the same motor more, and not making any more accelerative power. Or, just stuffing two more sets of tables and chairs into the same restaurant - that would mostly make the line shorter and faster moving, but not increase the actual business. That's not the direction I'm looking for here.
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post #21754 of 31647
8/4/12 at 12:16am
I don't get why you're looking for someone else. You're totally capable of running TOJ yourself. You're making enough money to survive and turn a decent profit. If you try and dabble in other businesses, it seems like all of them will suffer. If you wish that you could make cooler stuff or buy better material, find an investor and cut a deal you like. I also just worry that what makes TOJ stuff great is that kind of total unwavering commitment to a certain vision - it's way deeper than just the design - and no matter how aligned your partner is, you'll be sacrificing that. It's like if David Byrne brought in a collaborator for the Talking Heads. Obviously it's your decision, but I just like my TOJ stuff and I hope to buy more in the future so I'm kind of interested in a positive outcome
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post #21755 of 31647
8/4/12 at 12:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by impolyt_one View Post

Well, I disagree with almost all of that, don't be offended - but I think you're not seeing the forest for the trees here.
Korean manufacturing/supply chain = changeable if needed. Manufacturing can be developed/re-developed/changed to suit. A supply chain is not that hard to get into, also completely moveable. Part of adding a bigger financial resource pool would be to replicate this system in other places as well, like Japan, the USA, Europe, etc. It would require both HR and time/investment. We've done the Korean part already, but the possibility for adding more is just a matter of work to be done.
Paper patterns = worth something only if the person who draws them maintains working control of them - otherwise the modularity hurts. My job is to direct those with somebody who draws them, or to draw them myself. Either or, but it's internal thing that people aren't going to profit off unless there were HR behind it. Not a big part of the equation here. Clothes are ever changing and need patterns to be made. That's just a given part of the system.
Internet forum equity = good, but again, it's changeable if so desired. None of this is written in stone, these are just past setup styles. There's nothing stopping me from making more sales points. I just never did it previously because our capacity for work was reached and stayed there the whole time.
Trying to crank up what is/has been there already = just revving the same motor more, and not making any more accelerative power. Or, just stuffing two more sets of tables and chairs into the same restaurant - that would mostly make the line shorter and faster moving, but not increase the actual business. That's not the direction I'm looking for here.

Not offended in the least - we're all distant observers of your enterprise. Like most entrepreneurs you are focused on development and production. As a conservative investor I'm focused on earnings. I see a proven model in the mtm leathers sold via email, with plenty of room for expansion (demand is far from being discovered, let alone met); have a harder time seeing much upside in any of the other ideas you've mentioned, particularly if they replace the existing model, and therefore I wouldn't be inclined to invest on that basis. Then again, I only know what I read in this thread and expect you'll make a more detailed presentation to serious potential investors.

[Also to continue your restaurant analogy, you're proposing to incur substantial costs to expand the menu when there's a line out the door and no one outside the neighborhood knows you exist]
Edited by johanm - 8/4/12 at 1:16am
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post #21756 of 31647
8/4/12 at 1:46am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by johanm View Post

have a harder time seeing much upside in any of the other ideas you've mentioned, particularly if they replace the existing model, and therefore I wouldn't be inclined to invest on that basis.

I'm looking for someone who does see the potential. I think it's not impossible to do so, and I have some people talking to me about just that. It is fine not to see the potential and not buy, that's how these things go.
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post #21757 of 31647
8/4/12 at 2:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by johanm View Post

Not offended in the least - we're all distant observers of your enterprise. Like most entrepreneurs you are focused on development and production. As a conservative investor I'm focused on earnings. I see a proven model in the mtm leathers sold via email, with plenty of room for expansion (demand is far from being discovered, let alone met); have a harder time seeing much upside in any of the other ideas you've mentioned, particularly if they replace the existing model, and therefore I wouldn't be inclined to invest on that basis. Then again, I only know what I read in this thread and expect you'll make a more detailed presentation to serious potential investors.
[Also to continue your restaurant analogy, you're proposing to incur substantial costs to expand the menu when there's a line out the door and no one outside the neighborhood knows you exist]


It's not impossible, you just need to accept the fact that the profit margin a unit will be smaller, if you start doing wholesale to shops, also it takes money to make money, so the bulk ordering is necessary to keep cost down and making the business profitable, also you most likely need to hire some sort of PR agent, to "spread the word" and help with branding.

The expansion is actually pretty easy, you "just" need to do trade shows (if clothing trade shows cost the same as furniture, it will be a BIG post).

The restaurant analogy: there's actually a lot of "unknown restaurants" that are doing well on the same business model as TOJ.



In my mind, the biggest obstacle for a potential partner, is location, as most of the people on here are in the US or Europe, so being an active partner, is going to be difficult.
Edited by Find Finn - 8/4/12 at 2:37am
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post #21758 of 31647
8/4/12 at 4:21am
Thread Starter 
lol, I think a new concept gets thrown into every post that isn't mine - let's not talk about wholesale, etc - really beyond the point right now. That isn't the concrete direction for the future. That is one amongst many things, for someone else to decide - as I said, the fiscal responsibilities would be on the owner, I want that person to steer their investment to the right combination of sustainability and profitability. There's actually a number of ways to do this, and I've talked about almost none of them on the forums. They just don't have much to do with TOJ clothes. Most of them are common sense, though, and simply involve making an asset perform and exercise its capabilities. Considering how much I have been throttling TOJ, there's quite a bit of headroom here. Also, expansion can be done in a number of ways, and it doesn't have to involve a traditional retail model. None of this is set in stone, really, a lot of it can be done to someone's liking, in their own style.

It doesn't really matter if TOJ sells or not, and I said this last year too - I am not losing money by not selling, and I wasn't going to gain financial benefit if I sold, either. The numbers have been such that I'd actually be giving away my own potential money in order to prune some of my job titles, that's exactly what this is.

The owner can live anywhere in the world. There will be communications required, but as I'm deaf, it really is better for someone to talk to me via email or text message anyway. It wouldn't matter if you were sitting a foot away from me. The distance is essentially the same for all practical purposes. This is not a creative director job, it's not a floor-level position - that is my job. This is also one of those jobs where constant attention is not needed - everybody has their own work stations and is expected to deliver on their jobs.
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post #21759 of 31647
8/4/12 at 4:32am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by johanm View Post

[Also to continue your restaurant analogy, you're proposing to incur substantial costs to expand the menu when there's a line out the door and no one outside the neighborhood knows you exist]

This is off-base: the costs to perform expansion are actually close to nil, any money invested is almost guaranteed to be an investment with rapid and incredible return (we are talking about the raw/wholesale price of materials, not the retail price of the products - if you can, buy more milk because people have asked for more ice cream) - and people outside the neighborhood DO know about TOJ. It's not necessarily easy to get to or buy (and the reason, as I said - there was no motivation for me to make it easier to buy, we have been at production capacity for literally years now) but people outside of styleforum definitely know of TOJ. Every jacket worn and asked about that is floating around out there - that has put forth it's own multiples who gain awareness. That is just word of mouth alone, with no visuals beyond the product in hand. That could be people ranging from your mothers and brothers, to Kim Jones of LV (he has asked about it in the past)
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post #21760 of 31647
8/4/12 at 5:02am
What?! Expand on the Kim jones story.
Tell us more uncle drew!!
Edited by snowmanxl - 8/4/12 at 5:12am
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post #21761 of 31647
8/4/12 at 5:35am
Thread Starter 
I posted it in this thread some time ago, wouldn't be able to find it now. Anyway, was mostly beside the point. Also, you call me 'Papa Jawnz' from now on.
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post #21762 of 31647
8/4/12 at 6:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowmanxl View Post

What?! Expand on the Kim jones story.
Tell us more uncle drew!!

If I remember correctly he complimented a backpack someone was wearing.
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post #21763 of 31647
8/4/12 at 7:03am
So much knowledge gets dropped in this thread 0_o. Could write some good papers shamelessly stealing stuff, i wonder if it's been done. Jawnz, Food, Steez and grades for the people.
if anyone is looking to offload a small fishtail lemme know, shouldn't have slept now i need a winter coat.
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post #21764 of 31647
8/4/12 at 7:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by impolyt_one View Post

I posted it in this thread some time ago, wouldn't be able to find it now. Anyway, was mostly beside the point. Also, you call me 'Papa Jawnz' from now on.
Yes sir shog[1].gif
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post #21765 of 31647
8/4/12 at 7:55am
Some bomber pics...

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53ac9a5b.jpgWarning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
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4ac9eb29.jpg
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